David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputies who have contributed to the debate. The Bill that I have proposed will have the effect of modernising and clarifying the provisions of the Gaming and Lotteries Act 1956. It is time to update this outdated law. The debate was pretty good and quite instructive. I look forward to Committee Stage. I thank Deputy Ó Cuív in particular for his fine analysis. Experience tells here, when we say we are not going to cure addiction. It is going to be always with us but we can help in a way. I have been saying again and again that primarily, addiction is a health issue. We can do a certain amount from the justice end and on the regulator's side but that is where it lies.

I appreciate that there were lots of questions and I look forward to going through them in more detail on Committee Stage. I have expressed my commitment to bringing forward comprehensive reform proposals at the earliest possible opportunity. This is an internal measure we are dealing with tonight. As has come across from all colleagues who have spoken and from debate in the Seanad, this is a very complex area. It is extremely complex. The more we drill down into it, the more complex it gets. It has become more complex over the decades, especially with the online manifestation. The Government has agreed the plan for a comprehensive reform of our gambling licensing and regulation system. We have published the report of the interdepartmental working group on the future licensing and regulation of gambling. Based on that report and the 2013 general scheme of the gambling control Bill, my Department is working to bring forward revised modern legislation to address in a comprehensive manner the deficiencies in our current gambling licensing and regulatory infrastructure. The 2013 general scheme was just that. The legislation was never drafted. One of the things I have discovered even during the course of this Bill is that it is extremely complex to draft. It takes a long time. I was involved in the prelegislative scrutiny phase through a committee at that time. Since then, things have changed again. The legislation was not drafted. There was no Bill produced at that time, unfortunately. We are where we are.

I also want to set up a totally independent regulator. People have been talking about this. What was proposed in 2013 was an office in the Department of Justice and Equality. I want to go beyond that to have a totally independent regulator, self-financed, financed in the main by levies from the industry. It will be expensive to set up. It will be very complex and very big. This area is so large; as Deputies have said, the value of the industry is between €5 billion and €8 billion per annum. It is extremely complex. The gambling regulator will have to be flexible and able to move with the times. It is something we want to do. Deputy O'Callaghan has acknowledged that and I agree with him.

Deputy Murphy O'Mahony spoke about gambling addiction. A lot of people are speaking about gambling addiction. This Bill is not really about that but every time we speak about gambling, gambling addiction comes up. Deputy Scanlon spoke about taxation of online gambling and argued that we should help and support people who have gambling issues. I agree with him. Deputy Ó Laoghaire spoke about stakes and prize limits, which we have brought before the House. They will be brought before the House in time. We are updating them and a statutory instrument will be required in order to do that. The Minister will have the power to do that.

There is no proposition to ban gambling. If we restrict something too much, it goes underground. The Deputy mentioned prohibition, which is an example of this. We have to be careful that we do not drive things underground. There was a reference to an all-island approach to problem gambling. We are linking up with gambling regulators all over the world. Even where they have very powerful regulators, they still have problem gambling and addictions. We are financing another survey at the moment on problem gambling in conjunction with the Department of Health.

Deputy Kelly spoke about mobile phones, predator companies and data profiling. He made the point quite well about how complicated this is. In order to regulate it, we will have to have a very complex, comprehensive regulator in order to make this work. He spoke about data mining, cooling off periods and so on. We have spent a whole year looking at this with an interdepartmental group, and all these points came up. Sports betting has been mentioned as has money laundering. It goes on and on. It is quite complex. The Deputy asked about what is legal and illegal when it comes to slot machines and so on. They are still regulated by the law as it stands. Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan spoke about awareness raising and I agree with her on that issue. Prevention is important. She spoke about a school in the north inner city that is doing some good work which I commend. She talked about money laundering. We have a money laundering regulation which looks after that.

A lot has been said which will be very useful in feeding into the wider debate we are having on this for when we want to bring forward the whole issue of regulation itself. I agree with Deputy O'Callaghan that there is much more to be done. We have made a start on that road. Deputy Pringle spoke about the Garda superintendent. This Bill does provide a role for the Garda superintendent, not the sergeant as the 1956 Act states, to issue a gaming permit for prizes up to €3,000 or a lottery permit for up to €5,000. They are the same limits as we have at the moment. Improved terms and conditions are also proposed for these permits. They do not concern online gambling or gaming machines. There is local, small-scale funding activity through lotteries, raffles and so on. I recognise and thank Deputy Ó Cuív, who is the only one who spotted the fact that we are trying to help the small-scale raffles and not put too much pressure on them.

I look forward to Committee Stage debate and thank everyone for their constructive comments and the responsible debate we have had tonight.

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