Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I will be very brief as I had not intended speaking on the Bill but circumstances changed and it is an area in which I have much interest. I wish to make a few points. I welcome the Bill. The Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, is a resourceful Minister and I wish he had more time because we need to do a lot more. I welcome the caps and all the other measures the Bill contains but we need to do a lot more. The Minister of State is probably working within a restricted time limit and he is trying to get the Bill passed. We will support the Bill but we have a serious problem in the form of mobile phones. Mobile phone betting in this country is at a crisis. I have seen it. I know of so many cases. I am sorry to have to say it but we have a situation where some of the companies are predators.

The previous speaker made some excellent contributions and I echo them. I know people who work for some of those companies and the data profiling is absolute. When they profile, if they come across someone who has a problem they do not ask him or her to stop or whatever the slogan is. "When the fun stops, stop." They offer people free bets to make sure they can wind people in again. I am sorry, but that practice must be outlawed. We must have controls on this form of gambling but also the medium by which it is done. It is so easy. Late at night people with alcohol or other substances in their system make very bad decisions. They spend thousands. I have seen it done with my own eyes by people who could not afford to spend even a tenner not to mind €500 on a bet on something happening on the television in front of them inside a pub. This is a real epidemic and a serious issue.

What is of most concern to me is the age profile. People aged under 18 can get away with it by going around corners in terms of getting access to accounts. It is not good enough either even if the person is aged over 18. What 18 year old, or even someone who is a bit older, has access to a credit card and can go online and spend hundreds on bets? We have a real problem in this country. The socialisation of young people into gambling has become so easy. It is very different from when I or any other Member grew up when we went physically into a betting shop and we saw the fiver or tenner or whatever amount we were putting over the counter. We saw it was real money. Now it does not seem like real money. It is coming off a credit card or similar and in some cases they are not even real bets because it is virtual this, virtual that and virtual the other where the odds are set by the owner of the company and the games are set up in such a way that they will be profitable. Nobody knows the algorithms used for them. Nobody knows the capacity to win or not.

This is serious territory where the country must get in control and do so very quickly as to how one can bet online, the use of various media such as mobile phones and all forms of mobile devices, the scale of bets allowable, the way data are being mined to pull in people who have trouble gambling, and the way data are being mined and used against those who are successful the odd time when it is used the opposite way then. I know of cases where people have been restricted on bets in certain classifications of matches, for example, because they are quite good at it. If they were bad at it, they would be let bet away. It works one way in one case and the other way in another scenario. We need an independent gambling regulator. Data mining must be taken away from the companies or at least done in conjunction with the regulator. I do not believe the process by which data mining is done or managed can be left with the companies.

There must be restrictions on the amount one can spend. Time limits and ways in which people can be stopped who have gone over a set amount in a set period are needed. Companies that do not adhere to the rules must be penalised. It must be independently audited at all times. At present, these companies are having a cakewalk with vulnerable people. I am not referring to the ordinary person who does not have a problem and makes a bet every now and again, as I do, but the many people whose lives, families and careers have been devastated. It is happening before our eyes. When there is the ease of access that currently exists, that will continue. I ask the Minister to increase the stakes on this, if he will pardon the pun, because we must deal with it.

The idea that somebody who has lost thousands of euro in their account and has tried to give up gambling can be inundated with emails and messages offering him or her free bets of €50 is immoral. This must be outlawed. Companies cannot be allowed to do that. There is also the practice of offering different odds to different people at the same time, based on the requirement to pull somebody back into gambling.

I have some final questions. There has been no legislation in this area since 1956. I am not sure what is legal and illegal anymore with regard to casinos and slot machines. It is a strange question, but what is legal and what is illegal? Where can slot machines be located and how can they be utilised? The legislation is so old it is not fit for purpose, so how is it interpreted by the State? That is the first issue. Casinos with card tables and so forth are other institutions that seem to be popping up, disappearing and popping up again. What is their status? What is and is not allowed under the current legislation? I have serious doubts that some of the practices taking place not a million miles from here and in other parts of the country are legal. I would prefer the Department to examine that and make some form of statement or validation as regards their current status. The powers-that-be who must regulate and inspect this area would need that authority from the Department. To be fair to them, I am not sure if they know or are sure about it themselves. They need that guidance from the Department.

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