John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

It is a pity the senior Minister has gone and that we do not have an opportunity to respond to him. I thank everybody from this side of the House who participated in the debate.

I will briefly summarise for the record what the Bill will do. It proposes to make riding a quad or scrambler bike in an antisocial and dangerous manner an offence under public order legislation. There would be an increase in the penalties for supplying these bikes to underage children. We know that 39 people lost their lives over four years and that three quarters of these were children. Fines would be increased for a parent. The Minister of State mentioned convicting the wrong person. It is not a question of convicting the wrong person. If a Garda calls to a house and a parent says that the child was not on the bike or that the parent owns the bike, the parent can be fined up to €5,000 under this legislation. The Bill would direct the Minister to establish a national vehicle register and require the Minister to introduce regulations.

In his reply, the Minister went on at length about property rights. What about the rights of people who live in residential areas who cannot use their parks and open spaces and who cannot walk safely through laneways without fear of a scrambler bike coming along that laneway on a back wheel riding roughshod over a neighbourhood? The Minister's response gives no indication that he is connected. One of the Deputies said this. If this was happening in Marlay Park or Leopardstown, the Minister would be all over it like a rash in terms of trying to find a solution. There is no demographic, certainly in my constituency, but what I have seen is that because it has gone unchallenged, it is beginning to grow and spread. As Deputy Ellis said, the Bill is not perfect. We are open to amendments. I know there were well-intentioned previous efforts to address it. That is water under the bridge.

The Minister's reply was very wordy. It stated that:

A great deal of consideration has been given to whether there are any deficiencies in the law. However, the laws clearly exist both to punish offenders and to detain the vehicles where necessary.

We made this point before the Minister of State came into the Chamber. In order to detain a youth on a scrambler, a garda has to catch him or her and to catch him or her, a garda has to chase and intercept him or her. Chasing and intercepting him or her puts the public at risk. That is not me saying this. As Deputy Curran and all my colleagues said, it is superintendents in regions and districts across the metropolitan area of Dublin who are saying this. They have issued instructions to rank-and-file gardaí that they are not to chase and intercept because they are putting the public at risk. The first garda on a motorcycle who runs over a child while chasing a scrambler rider would be the first person we would criticise for engaging in dangerous activity.

Not one Fine Gael Member of the House contributed to this debate. The Minister's response this evening essentially maintains the status quo. What Fine Gael and this Government want is for a garda to get up on his or her motorcycle or to get into a 4 X 4 or squad car and, as a previous Deputy noted, to pursue for hours people on scrambler bikes around neighbourhoods and residential areas until he or she catches them - putting a significant number of people at risk. That is essentially the response of the Minister. He has not put forward any suggestion as to how the Government intends to deal with it. He talked about proportionality and how our Bill is disproportionate and does not represent a proportionate response to what is happening out there. He should come out to Kilnamanagh, Killinarden, Fettercairn, Kiltipper or the Dodder Valley and tell me what is more or less proportionate - scramblers riding roughshod over open spaces and the rights of citizens and residents or giving An Garda Síochána the power to confiscate and destroy the bikes and quad bikes that these youths use.

In his response, the Minister said that:

Over the last 12 months, the Minister for Justice and Equality has consulted with a number of stakeholders on this issue. Legal advice, received from the Office of the Attorney General last year, noted that, in principle, there would appear to be no difficulty in prosecuting a person who commits a public order offence with these vehicles under the current public order legislation.

However, he misses the point, which is that gardaí have to catch them and to catch them, gardaí have to chase them and gardaí do not want to chase them because it puts the public at risk. The Minister concluded by stating that he would like to commend Deputy Curran and I on our concern about the public welfare on this issue and the work we have put into this Bill but that he would also like us to consider what he said and to withdraw this Bill.

The Minister of State has probably watched "The Shawshank Redemption". There is a great line in it when Andy Dufresne says to the warden, "How can you be so obtuse?". The Minister's reply reflects that sentiment.

We have made the point that the gardaí cannot enforce the law because it puts the public at risk. The Minister is asking us to withdraw the Bill, leave it at that and just let it sit. For the past 12 to 18 months, there has been an interdepartmental committee - a task force made up of various stakeholders - but nothing has emerged from it. They are all saying that this is a really difficult and serious issue.

This is what we are asking the Minister of State, who is an Independent. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, is an Independent Minister. She represents the same constituency as I do. She knows or ought to know all about scramblers and the havoc and chaos they are causing in the constituency of Dublin South-West and how it is spreading. If she is canvassing on doors in this local election cycle she will be well aware that, after housing and health, the issue of scramblers in Tallaght south and Tallaght central is one of the biggest issues being raised on the doors.

It is disingenuous of the Minister of State to bring in the farming community because this has absolutely no implications or consequences for law-abiding citizens or for people who use scramblers in a responsible manner. The Minister of State keeps talking about the gardaí having the powers to detain. Why then at joint policing committees throughout the county and the policing metropolitan area of Dublin are gardaí saying they need additional powers? Why are they advising rank-and-file gardaí not to pursue, chase or intercept because it puts the public at risk? Only in occasional circumstances will the Garda mount special operations. I understand the Garda did so at Christmas in Cabra. Deputy Ellis might know about it. It was a special operation involving multiple Garda vehicles and a vast amount of human resources from the Garda point of view. The result was that they confiscated ten or 12 scramblers. Then, some days later those involved went to the Garda station and got them back.

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