Eoghan Murphy (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I note Deputy Coppinger railed against the lack of people to make contributions in the House on this debate. She is right: it is disappointing. It is also disappointing that she could not wait an additional seven minutes to hear the response to some of the points she raised. She also asked why I take this personally. I take this very personally because it is my responsibility to solve these problems. I do not know if Deputy Coppinger has responsibility for anything but I do take this personally because I want to get this solved and I will work with any Deputy in this House on an idea that I think will help to solve it. I will not let ideology keep me from working with others, as some Deputies in this House do.

I am sorry that Deputy Broughan also is not here to hear my reply. If he cannot see some of the progress that is happening, some of the improvements that are being made and the families that are getting keys to new social housing homes, then I am afraid his own ideology is blinding him to it. Like Deputy Broughan and all Members of this House, I have constituents hurting because we still have a severe housing shortage, which we are working to correct. The Deputy either intentionally misquoted me or quoted me out of context, but I said we will always need emergency accommodation, unfortunately, because of the lives that we all lead and through no fault of anyone people will find themselves in difficulty on a night in question needing emergency accommodation.

It is our responsibility, as a Government, to make sure it is always available. I did not say there would always be people homeless on the street and that we would not care for them; I said the opposite. The Deputy is being irresponsible if he thinks people will not find themselves in difficulty in the future and in need of State support. That was the point I was making.

The Deputy calls us an austerity Government. Again, his ideology is blinding him to the fact that the housing budget this year is €2.4 billion, which represents an increase on the budget for last year and the highest ever spend on housing in a single year by an Irish Government. How is that an austerity budget? The Deputy's ideology is getting in the way.

The Deputy was either not listening or does not want to accept that there are potential risks in the Bill before us. No one denies the intention and noble motivation behind it. We all want to prevent families and individuals from entering homelessness, but we also need to be open to each other's points and the potential risks when we have debates.

The average length of time spent in a family hub is six months. Of course, some families have been in one for longer, but the average is six months. The situation is far more positive than previously for families. Where would Deputy Ó Broin put people if we are not to have family hubs, landlords, the HAP scheme, buy-to-let properties or foreign investors? Where would people live while we increased the stock of social housing? He will not answer that question because he cannot do so.

Deputy Coppinger asked about the evidence for a potential decrease of 20% to 30% in the value of a house if tenants had to be in situwhen it was sold. We already have such evidence through an examination under the Tyrrelstown amendment. She talked about price decreases as being good because house prices are too high. Of course, for someone who is trying to buy a house, falling house prices are good. However, if a person who owns a house is in negative equity and the house has to be sold to pay off a debt and if it cannot be sold, the bank might then go after the house in which the person lives. It is not good if someone who needs financial support from the sale of a house to meet medical bills or something else cannot have that support. More people end up getting hurt as a result of not thinking through the risk of bankruptcy that might affect them. We have to think about all of these things. They cannot only be looked at in isolation.

Deputy Coppinger said I was worried about landlords. I am not. I am worried about losing them, as are Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil and all of responsible Members in this House. Landlords are part of the solution and, if Deputy Coppinger had any responsibility here, she would also be worried.

We are going to strengthen section 34 of the Residential Tenancies Acts 2004 to 2016. There is no point in me going to war with councils to increase supply. We have housing summits to help them to increase supply, recognising that they have been out of that game for a number of years in many areas. We should not try to be divisive; rather, we should try to look for ways to co-operate. It is not my style to be divisive.

In December people were leaving emergency accommodation. When we talk about exits from emergency accommodation, we do not mean going home or to live with family; rather, we talk about exits to sustainable tenancies. In December and January more families exited than entered emergency accommodation. That was a positive development, but, regrettably, it was reversed in the most recent figures.

I worry that people will be taken in by Deputy Coppinger's simplistic and ideological approach to government. Her approach to it and that of her party has never worked anywhere. She speaks about campaigns that forced the Government to make a change on the eight amendment to the Constitution, but democracy led to that change. I have heard contributions from her party colleagues that, at times, are very anti-democratic. That worries me.

Deputy Casey spoke about transition. That is important because we are transitioning to a new housing economy. Public and State land will be used in the public good to provide affordable and cost rental housing. That will take time and is more challenging, but it is happening. We have to protect people during that period of transition.

The Deputy has proposed an amendment to the current proposal which I would like to see in writing because I have said I will consider every idea that is put on the table. I note that he takes responsibility for all of the positives in the budget. I again thank him and his party for their support for Rebuilding Ireland. He again mentioned that the affordability scheme was his party's idea, which is not true. It would be great if we could see some consistency from Fianna Fáil. If it isto support the good and positive things that are happening, it has to recognise the challenges we face with things that are not happening in the way we would like.

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