Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

This is a just in case Bill. In the best of circumstances, we would hope this legislation would never have to be enacted. The best Brexit for Ireland is no Brexit and the second best Brexit option is a delay for as long as possible while the various complicated issues are sorted out. What is certainly true, however, is that throughout the country, particularly in the North and the Border counties, there is a great deal of real concern, apprehension and fear among people about what Brexit is going to mean.

This is essentially country to country legislation between Ireland and the United Kingdom. Much of its structure is derived from the common travel area, which pre-dates, by a long time, Ireland and the UK's membership of the European Union in the 1970s. That makes these bilateral arrangements with the UK possible. The Labour Party will be broadly supportive of this legislation. We do have many queries, however, about the details of the legislation and the impact of some of its elements.

Britain is now slouching towards exiting the EU. Games are being played, by Tories in particular, which are very damaging to Ireland. All of us who have witnessed the debates and votes in the UK Parliament are dismayed because of the potential consequences for Ireland, North and South, and also for our friends, neighbours and relations in the UK. I am referring to those in Scotland, Wales and England. For the Republic of Ireland and the island of Ireland, this is the greatest challenge since the bank crash. In hindsight, we all know that in 2008 the bank crash seemed like a relatively simple thing. It would happen and it would be costly and eventful. No one at that time, or very few, however, appreciated just how catastrophic a financial meltdown would be for the country.

I recall being one of the people speaking about that when almost no one else actually said anything and almost everybody else supported the fatal bank guarantee. We have had that recent experience and the ten long years it has taken for many people in the country to recover and for the 350,000 to 400,000 people who lost their jobs to get back into employment. We have to use that experience to be alert for events that may be very damaging for all the country or parts of the country or for individuals, families, institutions and businesses throughout the country.

As I have said, this is a just in case Bill. We hope we will not need it but it is almost certain that we will need some elements of the legislation. Like many other Members of the Oireachtas, over the past two years I have had many opportunities to meet people from the parliaments of Scotland and Wales through the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly. Particularly in the case of Scotland, they face very similar challenges to those faced by the island of Ireland. Wales has challenges concerning the flow of imports and exports, as do we. We use Wales and England as a landbridge to get imports and exports to and from Ireland via ports like Dover.

In this country we often fail to appreciate that for many of the ardent Brexiteers - and they are very ardent - Brexit is a freedom issue. They often do not want to know the details of what is involved in dropping out of the European Union. They do not want to have detailed arguments about the technical impacts on different sectors. It has been said to me several times that if they survived two world wars, they can face this as well, even if there is a lot of disruption. It is sometimes quite depressing to listen to this. This morning I heard Lord Puttnam talking on RTÉ One. As a Member of the British House of Lords living in the south west, he spoke of how this is a post-colonial moment for the United Kingdom.

If we fail sufficiently to understand the arch-Brexiteers and their point of view, they equally fail to understand the enormous positive difference that European Union membership has made to Ireland since we joined in the early 1970s. I will mention a few areas where being part of the EU transformed our national landscape. Much of that carried on in a very favourable way in Northern Ireland and was ultimately part of the reason we were able to find a solution like the Belfast Agreement. Those areas include women's rights, rights for people with a disability, general working rights for men and women, environmental standards and consciousness, farming, economics in a general sense, and funds that have supported education and training, allowing Ireland to upskill and improve its level of education. While countries like Portugal have spent a lot of their funds on transport infrastructure, Ireland has, historically and rightly, spent vast funds on upgrading the standards of education, training and qualification for people throughout the country. As a result, we probably have one of the highest numbers of graduates per capitain the EU, and possibly in the world. Some of that might have happened anyway, but it happened much more quickly as a consequence of our membership of the EU. It may well be that in the United Kingdom areas like women's rights were far more advanced and therefore leavers do not have the positive association with the European Union that people in Ireland tend to have. It is not an uncritical association, but it recognises the positives that have been enabled.

As a Minister in three different Governments through the years, I have attended various European Union meetings. For somebody like me, who was raised in a Labour socialist republican tradition, there is something very moving from a historical point of view in sitting at the table on an absolutely equal basis with the United Kingdom, given our long history with that country. This is not sufficiently understood by those in the United Kingdom who are arguing for exiting the EU.

Two weeks ago I was part of an all-party delegation to the new United States Congress on its opening day, which consisted of Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh, the Cathaoirleach of the Seanad, Senator Denis O'Donovan, and Senator Mark Daly. That was one of the first all-party delegations from the Oireachtas to go to the United States Congress and talk to our friends on Capitol Hill, particularly the Congressional Friends of Ireland, about the dangers and threats that Brexit poses to Ireland. The discussions we had were very interesting. We met Representative Richard Neal, the Chairman of the House Committee on Ways and Means, the most powerful committee in Congress. Representative Neal is also co-chair of the Congressional Friends of Ireland along with Representative Peter King from the Republican side. We also met people like Representative Brendan Boyle, who put forward a motion to acknowledge the interests of Ireland in the context of Brexit. A trade deal between the United Kingdom and the United States has been spoken about as something that could happen very quickly. Representative Boyle has called for Congressmen and Congresswomen on the Hill to be cognisant of the potential for the United Kingdom to put some stress on if not endanger the Belfast Agreement. It is very important that our friends from across the political divide in the United States, who along with the European Union have been so much a party to the Belfast Agreement, should be aware that a Brexit which puts the Belfast Agreement under strain or at risk is not in the interests of anybody on this island. It is also not in the interests of the United Kingdom itself. People like Congressman Boyle should be congratulated on the degree of interest that they have not just taken but expressed in Congress and in committee in the interests of all of Ireland.

One of the issues they raised with us is the political reality in the United States at the moment. As in much of the world, the atmosphere means that now is not the time for trade deals. For reasons we all understand, they are viewed with grave suspicion by a lot of people who feel they risk undermining their standard of living and their employment prospects. We were told that the prospect of a trade deal being entered into very rapidly, or within a couple of months of the United Kingdom exiting, as has been suggested by some leavers, is very unlikely in light of the priorities of the United States. The USA is a very close ally of the United Kingdom and everyone recognised and acknowledged that. Nonetheless, the realpolitikof the United States at the moment creates other pressing priorities. Trade deals are very complex instruments which typically take many years to conclude.

While there may be an agreement in principle to go into a trade deal process, it is likely that striking a trade deal, with all of the detailed negotiation and the quid pro quos involved, would take a significant time. The Canada deal is often cited as being one which happened relatively quickly but it was many a long year before it was finally agreed.

The other issue that is difficult in this context for the United Kingdom, which may have knock-on repercussions for Ireland, is that if it were to drop down to third country status. I am particularly concerned about what might happen our beef industry. I hope it does not, as we do not know what then would happen. The British have indicated that they wish to broadly favour Ireland, and there is the basis in this legislation, historically, relating to the common travel area. However, WTO rules are clear that if third countries extend facilities to other third countries they may have to give that to every other third country. There is no clarification on that. That would be something to be negotiated but we hope that may not happen.

In terms of what has been happening in the UK, in many ways, given the difficulties for Scotland and Wales, it is a moment of British nationalism. A Brexit fund is needed in the Republic of Ireland to provide for people who may be at risk of unemployment and to provide for upskilling, support for employment and return to education initiatives, if that is what becomes necessary. I hope this will not happen but I would like clarity on a Brexit jobs fund or something similar. When we entered government at the time of the crash, approximately €1.5 billion extra, even in very straitened times, was made available in the context of the dreadful unemployment situation.

A number of questions arise from the proposals that have been hinted at. For instance, last night, RTÉ reported on the new entry booths and stalls at Dublin Port for trucks. We have not heard any detailed explanation of how that will work. Not long ago I was in Dundalk where the former customs premises has been completely refurbished but we have no idea how many people will be employed and what exactly they will do. We know also, and people living along the Border in particular would know this, that up to 2000 there was a very active business in customs clearance agents or whatever they would be called nowadays. Those jobs basically disappeared in the context of open borders. It would appear now that at a minimum there will be many more intensive requirements relating to documentation, invoicing and other information that traders and hauliers will have to provide in the context of movements to and from the European mainland to Ireland and to the United Kingdom if they are coming to Ireland. We need some explanations of the expectations now in that regard. Any support that is made available for businesses would be welcome but businesses do not yet know what will happen.

We have seen references to farm support of between €15,000 and €25,000 but people are still in the dark as to how that will work. There are many small, family-run businesses in the agrifood sector and one way or another much more documentation will have to be completed by small business and self-employed people. They will need appropriate support.

I ask the Minister of State about the section on taxation, which we will get an opportunity to discuss in detail in committee. I refer to the chapter on VAT. The proposal is to have postponed accounting on VAT for all imports registered for VAT in Ireland and a modification of the proposed accounting scheme. That is fine up to a point but how will massive smuggling be avoided if, for instance, VAT at the point of entry is no longer collected but instead will be collected some time later when VAT returns are being made and, in turn, those returns may be delayed? I do not have any difficulty in principle with that but if material is coming in here and traders do not fully record it until some months later because it is coming in without any VAT-type record, how will significant losses be avoided? The Minister and the Government need to explain that because traders and businesses also need to know what the practical impact will be on VAT returns and how we will deal with that.

A number of arrangements are now being specified on a country-to-country basis in tax matters with the United Kingdom. We need some detailed explanations of the implications of those. We support the Bill but we need to address its implications.

Unfortunately, this legislation does not specifically mention workers' rights.

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