John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I am not surprised that Fine Gael is taking this attitude to the Bill because previous Administrations led by Fine Gael took the same attitude. It does not seem to want to progress an oversight authority in regard to the expenditure of taxpayers' money on major projects, to achieve value for money or to accept some of the very valuable recommendations put by the Committee of Public Accounts to various Departments. There is a history of Departments stalling replies to the Committee of Public Accounts and not implementing the recommendations it makes in terms of achieving value for money. This is continued by way of the response of the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, this week at the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach. When I suggested that he should involve the Comptroller and Auditor General he responded that he could not do so but he can. The Comptroller and Auditor General has been already involved. He carried out some audits and reports on various aspects of the children's hospital, which, I think, cost in the region of €38,000. Why would the Government not reach to an internal arm of the State to ensure that it gets value for money, rather than giving money to a company like PwC?

We are now faced with the biggest scandal the country has seen for a long time, in that the estimated cost of the construction of the children's hospital has moved from €600 million to €1.7 billion, and no one can guarantee that that figure will be the final cost. It may increase to €2 billion. In regard to the works being undertaken on this house, we were told today at the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach by the Chairman of and the Minister of State with responsibility for the Office of Public Works, OPW, that the cost of this work is estimated to be €15 million, that there is likely to be an overrun but that they could not tell us by how much it would overrun. The OPW has to claw back €3 million in the context of the money that has to be recouped due to the overrun on the national children's hospital. They have to deal with an overspend in regard to the work on Leinster House but they could not tell us what schemes or projects would be affected by the clawback, except to say generally that the €3 million would be taken out of the flood relief schemes. That is shocking. The Minister of State, Deputy D'Arcy, often appears before the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach. We have often questioned the methodology behind the procurement process. As stated by Deputy Calleary, we have flagged the fact that this process is working against the SMEs in this country. It is not giving them a fair shake. Have we not learned from Carillion? Have we not learned from all of the other issues that have dogged Government over a long number of years in regard to overspend and poor value for money? When what can be done for the future is articulated here, the single thing the Government will not do for some reason is increase the powers of the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Those powers should be increased to cover what is in this Bill, for example, the works and expenditure of Irish Water, which was promised. The Comptroller and Auditor General should be considered in the context of local government expenditure, which none of us in this House can get to grips with because responsibility for it is one step removed from us in the Local Government Audit Service. I have not seen a public debate on a report from the Local Government Audit Service. The Government still resists the suggestion that it be included in the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General. If the Government has confidence in that office, it should accept this Bill and the other suggestions that have been made. It should include local government and send a clear signal to the taxpayer that we will no longer accept overruns and poor value for money and that our business will mean that what gets counted gets done. If the Government were to live by that rule, as a normal business would, we might see far less of the carry-on we are experiencing with the national children's hospital, the Leinster House project and many other projects that go unscrutinised in this State.

I ask the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, Deputy Fleming, to resist entirely the negative commentary from those on the ditch outside this House who question the role of the committee. It is the foremost committee in this House and should be defended to the last by all parties. The Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General should be skilled to the last and we should be foursquare behind that office, the public and value for money. Let us put our foot down and stop it now. Despite, the Minister of State and his Government ignore the genuine attempts being made to improve what is necessary to get value for money.

See this speech in context