John Paul Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Most of the questions are about the issue of the two additional seats and their allocation. I gave a commitment to the Members that once the Government has approved those amendments they will be circulated. People will have enough advance notice and a chance to consider them. I have been asked directly about the direction of Government opinion. Essentially, there are two options. There is the option of a national panel or, taking on board the legal opinion to which the Sinn Féin Members referred, there might be other options with regard to that. There is also the possibility that the final seat in the Dublin constituency and the final seat in the southern constituency would be put into deep freeze. That is the phrase coined by Deputy Cassells which has been used by everyone else since. If that is the decision the Government takes, it will then be a matter for the European Union in respect of the facilities available to those who are elected. The European Council decision refers to "taking up their seats." That is a different wording from "being elected." Therefore this could have other knock-on effects in respect of dual mandate legislation, including if Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas or indeed members of local authorities wished to contest.

I disagree profoundly with Deputy Jan O'Sullivan's suggestion that it had not been considered, although maybe I took her up wrong. This matter is like a Rubik's cube. It has been considered by me, officials and other members of the Government in every aspect. It is a bit like the Brexit question itself: there is no clear-cut solution. It is a question of trying to find a solution that would be most proportionate to the electorate, would marry with the electoral system that we have, which is a constituency-based system, and would also respect the fact that we are legislating for boundaries in advance of a final decision on Brexit. We must do so because, as everyone said, people are making decisions about who will be selected and who is going to run. Those candidates deserve certainty on the geographic extent of their constituencies. There are myriad competing issues. I was struck by Deputy Ó Caoláin saying he would finish his contribution by asking the simple question of why. In my time here there has rarely been a less simple "why" than in this whole discussion.

I think Mr. Bassett was mentioned as the author of the legal opinion to which Sinn Féin referred and which it has submitted. I assure the Deputies that it was considered. There are a whole lot of competing interests when it comes to the rights of Irish citizens, whether they reside in the Twenty-six Counties, North of the Border, in another country of the European Union or further afield.

8 o’clock

As Deputy Ó Caoláin spoke, I thought about my two first cousins from south Kilkenny who live in Scotland, which also voted to remain in the European Union. They will not have a vote in the European Parliament elections. It is not for the lack of discussion or consideration, but there is nothing simple about the whole question of Brexit, nor about how we allocate our Members of the European Parliament. The best I can do for the Deputies is to state that I will circulate the amendments as soon as they are approved by Cabinet. That will happen well in advance of the forthcoming Stages of this legislation.

I am sure other items of legislation have already referenced Brexit, but this is real, practical legislation that is affected directly by it. In the context of the implications for those who might be elected, the EU will have to decide whether or not those elected will be given observer status, as is the case for applicant members. Our decision concerns how we allocate the two additional seats. If a deep-freeze approach is taken, we also have to consider whether it will have implications for other legislation. The dual mandate is an obvious piece of work that comes to mind.

I would also make the point, even though I never practised law, that legal opinion is not infallible. While I respect the view expressed and would share much of it, the central question is what are the implications this could have for Irish citizens residing in other parts of the United Kingdom, in other countries of the EU or in applicant countries. Ultimately, the committee was curtailed by the European Parliament Elections Act 1997 in the context of the terms of reference considered.

The issue of proportionality was mentioned by several members. It is dependent on the amendments the Government seeks to table, but consideration must be given to the possible implications for proportionality for the time until Brexit becomes effective. If we were to elect on a national panel based on the new boundaries. this would have a lasting effect on proportionality for the rest of the lifetime of the next European Parliament. Proportionality swings both ways to an extent. If we move to a national list or panel system for those two seats, issues might arise. I have always had the sense that Irish people value the fact that their representatives are elected for a defined position, be it Clare in the Connacht-Ulster constituency of old or Clare in the current constituency of Ireland South. People associate their votes as being for specific or particularly identifiable geographic reasons. Moving away from that would be a huge electoral change in an Irish context and would certainly not be deliverable in advance of the European election.

Deputy Lawless was not the only person to express concerns about provincial boundaries; there were several submissions on that point. The committee has stuck to provincial boundaries, save for dividing the province of Leinster down the middle.

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