Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank all the Deputies who contributed to this debate, which has been a very good one. Unfortunately, I have not had the chance to read the countermotion put forward by the Government. I will read it carefully and if it can be agreed, it will be. However, I will need to defer that decision until tomorrow because I have not read it.

Although this debate started because of the recent controversy around what the Garda announced two weeks ago, the debate here went beyond the issues of the Garda's operation of the juvenile diversion programme. We had a much broader debate on the whole issue of juvenile crime. It is apparent from listening to the considered contributions of Deputies that there is a recognition that this is a very complex and complicated issue. I am very pleased the Minister of State, Deputy Stanton, will be involved in developing a youth justice strategy.

He has the innovative attitude needed to really try to make a strong contribution in this area. It is an area in which State intervention is crucial, particularly in respect of those who are at an early age.

The contributions from Deputies Cassells and Gino Kenny reveal that this can be a very emotive and difficult matter. Both gave accounts of how people had been viciously assaulted or sexually abused as a result of crimes committed by children. Anyone who is the victim of a crime of this nature would be very concerned to ensure that justice was done and would want to see some retribution for the suffering they endured. That is at one end of the spectrum in terms of looking at crimes of that magnitude and gravity committed by children of say 16 or 17 years of age. Of course, at the other end of the spectrum there are children getting involved in crime very young, at 12 or 13 years of age, whether it is running for drug dealers or theft.

One of the priorities - probably the absolute priority - must be to try to access and get involved with these children at an early stage in order that we can divert them from the path of crime upon which they have started. Statistics show that if a person at 18 years of age has been previously involved in crime on a recurrent basis, he or she will remain involved in crime as an adult. The study of crime and punishment is complicated but it shows not only that it mostly involves men, but also that when they get to the age of 40, in general, they stop or at least the figures decline considerably. Therefore, it is something that men do in their 20s and 30s in particular. The State has to intervene at as early a stage as possible in order to ensure that we get them off this path. That is why I believe State intervention works and should be advanced by the Government in order to try to deter this type of criminal activity.

It is a complex issue. What are the factors that prevent a child from getting involved in crime? None of them can be categorised simply but, for example, home, community, school and sport are all factors that play a role in preventing children from becoming involved in criminal activity. Children are very malleable. They can be moulded to avoid crime just as they can be moulded to get involved in crime, which, unfortunately, we now see being done by serious gangland criminals.

To return to the statistics, there is general recognition in the House that the youth diversion programme should be cherished, preserved and, if possible, improved. I accept fully the points that have been made that the failings disclosed by An Garda Síochána are, to a certain extent, reflective of historical failings up to July 2017. Nonetheless, it is important that this House debates and reflects on those failings to see how they occurred in order to ensure they do not happen again. It is important that we take into account the issue of whether the juvenile diversion programme will be centralised. My view is that we should try to keep this as a community-based initiative. When it is run by locals within a community, they play a strong role in influencing children.

What this really amounts to is a fight between the powers that are good and those that are bad in order to try to mould children. If children are lost to crime in their teens, it has a devastating impact on them and on society. As has been stated, the statistics indicate that 57 children have died. What that really reflects is the tragic, chaotic lives of those children. As a society, we have to ensure that we do not let children down again in the future while at the same time ensuring that we protect the victims of crime.

I am afraid I will have to put this to a vote in order to test the amendment. However, I will reflect further on the matter tonight and tomorrow morning.

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