Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent) | Oireachtas source

There has to be balance in this whole debate and in the Bill that has been brought before the House. Unfortunately, there is not that balance.

Every one of us as politicians is, rightfully, concerned about the rights of tenants and about housing for people who are not able to provide housing for themselves, be it through local authority housing, through HAP, the rental accommodation scheme, RAS, or other housing schemes. We must, however, have balance. We have to realise that people who own property are not to be demonised and are not to be criminalised in this Bill. I do not believe it is necessary to register a property every year. It is absolutely unnecessary. The Minister is putting an additional cost onto people who have survived a massive recession, who bought properties, perhaps at the very high end of the market, and are left paying off exorbitant loans. They were trying to bring in rent and balance their books when rents were very low. Every week I hear of people who have different jobs and who use money from these wages to pay for their property, for which they borrowed money, in order to provide accommodation and rent it out in the rental market.

I was asked to tell the Minister a specific story and I want him to listen to it so he will hear a different side of the argument. Picture this; a young couple who perhaps are younger than the Minister, left Ireland and went to Australia. They worked very hard. They are two, young, hard, tough people - a nice boy and a nice girl. They made a bit of money in Australia and they saved it up. The couple said that I could use their names in the Dáil if I wanted to but I will not, because I do not believe it would be polite to do so.

They are a real couple from Ireland. They worked away and were saving their money. They wanted to think of doing something progressive with the money. They thought that in the future, when they might have a family, they would want to come back to Ireland and settle here with their family and because they thought their work would help them finish up in Dublin they decided to buy a property in Dublin. They bought the property, which was more than €600,000. They had some savings and they borrowed the rest. As we can imagine, if one borrows €400,000 or €450,000 there is a big loan to pay.

The rent on the property was fixed at what I would consider to be exorbitant because the rents are a lot lower where I come from - while they are still high they are relatively low if one is paying a mortgage. The rent the couple were getting was €2,200. Another couple rented the house and paid one month's rent and a deposit but they have never paid another penny since. These tenants are taking a case against the boy and the girl in Australia and are saying that they are being harassed by the property owners. The harassment consists of the letting agent in Dublin trying to make contact with the tenants who are living in the house to demand that they pay the rent.

These tenants constituted this as harassment and they made a complaint. They know how to work the system and they will probably stay in that house in Dublin for two years before they will eventually have to leave. The couple in Australia are paying 100% of the mortgage on the property while those people are living rent free in the house. It is not the first time those tenants have done this. They have done it before and they are using the system in place to wrong the owners of properties by going from one to the other. They make up references. I do not know how they manage that side of it, perhaps it was not processed correctly or properly. The young man and woman in Australia are paying for a property in Ireland and not receiving one bit of rent.

Why have I told the Minister this story? This young couple rang me and were so upset when they heard what was happening with the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Bill 2018. They asked whether anyone was going to stand up in the Dáil to tell the likes of their story and what is happening to them with regard to property.

When I hear other Members speak on this Bill I know that they are well intentioned. However, I hear the Members speak about landlords as if they were something the Deputies had stood on outside in the street. These landlords are people who borrow money, buy a property and renovate it, rent it out and pay their tax. When people talk about rents do they realise that half of that rent goes on tax? The person who owns and rents a property is also a tax collector. In the context of County Kerry rents may be €700 or €800.

The maximum is €1,000 and half of that goes on tax. That is the first thing that must happen. The mortgage must then be paid and repairs have to be done. There can also be cases where there is difficulty in collecting rent. Can the Minister rationalise that and take it into account when he is dealing with this whole debate? Of course there are rogue property owners who do not fulfil their obligations and who try to avoid paying tax and everything else. However, there are also respectable landlords who do their jobs in the right way and who have been doing the job for a long time. They are filling a gap in the market. If they were not there where would the houses and properties to rent come from?

Can the Minister imagine any young person today or in the future deciding that it would be a good idea to go out and build a house or borrow money in order that he or she can provide a house for the rental market? He or she would be a tax collector effectively, collecting tax at 50% for the State. On top of that he or she would have to pay a loan and try to provide a house for tenants. Nobody is going to do that in the future. I cannot deny that the first time I did it I was 19. Can the Minister imagine a 19 year old today trying to do that, or thinking it was a good idea? I have worked damn hard in this area over the years, and I do not deny that either. However, people today are almost criminalised for trying to make money as a landlord. It is totally maddening. All landlords are painted with the same brush. In the future there will be no such thing as a private landlord. Deputy Michael Collins mentioned the people who might have one or two properties, but they will not exist in the future. It will not happen. Big groups such as vulture funds and pension companies will have hundreds of properties and they will be the types of entities renting property in the future. Individuals will decide that the process is insane and that they will not work in the area. It will not be a viable, profitable or sensible business for any individual to get involved in.

I studied this Bill closely last night and I have heard the arguments made by everyone else in the House. The only argument that is being made is that property owners should be demonised. That is so wrong. Of course there are people who have done bad things. I have seen the reports of landlords allowing 20 people to rent a small property, as has everyone else. Of course that is wrong. That is the reason for regulations. That is why we have inspections from the local authorities. The people I am speaking up for today are those who register their properties, who pay their tax at 50% or 52% and who do everything right. They keep their properties to fire safety standards and every other standard required, yet they have to listen to politicians constantly demonising them. They are told that they are a type of criminal if they are renting out property.

Why does the Minister want people to register a tenancy every 12 months and put that expense onto landlords who are already struggling to pay mortgages? Why does the Minister want to do that? Why in the name of God does he not look at the other side, and try to encourage people to become landlords? He has spoken regularly about finding housing solutions to fix the problems we have. I have said it many times that the most obvious solution is in front of our eyes. In every town and village there are shops which have closed. There are properties over those shops and there are disused buildings that would be absolutely perfect with a bit of investment. If the roofs are good they do not need to be touched; the rest of the building can be fixed up. If the roof is bad a new roof can be put on and the rest of the property can be brought up to standard before being rented out. Why will people not do that? We only have to listen to the debate in this House over the last two days to figure out the answer to that question. Why would a sane person go into a village or a town and buy a property, pay all that has to be paid, borrow money if he or she does not have it, do that property up and rent it out, only to pay half of it in tax? He or she is collecting tax for the Minister and for the Revenue Commissioners. He or she then has to listen to politicians as he or she is demonised. Why would anyone want to do that? Why would anyone do it in the future? People will not do it. We are then going to have a massive gap: there will no longer be private rented accommodation available which always filled a gap.

I do not want people to be renting a property forever. I have always said to young couples that renting is a way of getting their legs on the ladder. They have to start out somewhere. Perhaps they will go to local authority housing or are able to save up a deposit and get on the market themselves. However, we hear constant criticism in this House. There are businessmen in Ireland who only ever hear their names mentioned in this Dáil when someone is criticising them. They are people who are household names, who are demonised here despite the fact that they are creating thousands of jobs. Certain people are very critical of them in this House because of the fact that they are successful. What is wrong with a person wanting to provide accommodation? Why are we going after them with this? That is what we are doing. I ask them please to consider what they are doing and to consider the long term effect of their words. Who is going to be affected here? Thinking about this intelligently, the people this Bill will hurt are the very people they hope to try to help, i.e. those who want to rent accommodation. They will be hurt because people will be discouraged from getting involved in the business of buying or building to rent. No sane person in Ireland will do it in the future. Vulture funds will come in and buy up the properties from people who have them. Big companies will own hundreds of thousands of properties, but the individual landlords, be they gardaí or shopkeepers who might have a second or third property, will not exist in the future thanks to Bills such as this.

The Minister knows that I am not a critical person and that I support legislation that needs to be supported. I am the first person to defend the Minister in those circumstances and the first person to say that the Government is doing a good job. However, we must stop demonising people in the way we have been to date.

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