Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank all those who took part in this Second Stage debate. I do not doubt for one moment that all of them are looking after the interests of their constituents and of the nation as they see them and that the contributions to this debate have been sincere. I do not agree with them all, but they have certainly been expressed in terms which are moderate and sensible and they have shown a knowledge of the airport and the airlines, which is very welcome in a debate of this sort. I look forward to the passage of this legislation on Second Stage this evening. I hope to herald an early Committee Stage in January. I believe that is what is planned. We will be able to thrash out some of the detail there. I have said quite specifically to Deputies that if there are constructive improving amendments to this legislation, we will welcome them. I am not, under any circumstances, putting a bar on amendments. What I am saying is that the passage of this Bill is urgent for reasons which I believe everybody understands.

It has something to do with the delay, for which I have taken a certain amount of blame. The delay that occurred with this legislation was mostly legally led. The Attorney General found that the early decision to appoint the Irish Aviation Authority, IAA, was not legally sound and advised against going ahead with choosing it as the competent regulator. That was as frustrating for me and the Government as it is for the Members of this House. They are now expressing that frustration very eloquently. I am somewhat at a loss as to what they are advising I should have done in the face of that advice. Had I said that the advice was flawed, not taken any notice of it, and gone ahead with the decision to appoint the IAA, what would those Deputies be saying to me now? They would be saying that it was an irresponsible and reckless attitude to one of the most important decisions I have to take in this job.

They would be saying that this would be judicially reviewed, that it would be challenged in the courts, delayed and God knows where it would be going for years. That would have had some justification and I would have had to justify taking a decision against legal advice from the highest legal officer in the land. I have been challenged on it, probably with justification. It would undoubtedly have been inviting challenge by taking a decision of that sort and we would be in a much bigger mess than we would have liked to have been in.

I defend without equivocation the decision to take that legal advice. I would have much preferred if it had not happened but in light of events that were happening elsewhere, that was a decision which the Attorney General took. I, along with others, decided after that Fingal County Council would be an appropriate independent noise regulator. I agree that has provoked and prompted some very good, fine and fair questions but I do not accept the situation which has been presented to us that in some way Fingal County Council will lack the independence necessary to carry out this particular function.

Deputy Broughan said that 40% of Fingal County Council's income comes from the airport. He is not in the Chamber now but I do not know where in the name of God he got that figure. The figure I have got that is coming through is 8%. I would be happy to discuss it with him on Committee Stage. In debates of this sort we continuously get figures like that flung around but not backed up by any authority or expertise. It is wrong to quote figures which have no backing or which are not, as far as I know, supported by evidence. In a debate of this sort, if the figure is 8%, it is a long way from 40%.

I appreciate Deputy O'Dowd's point about making sure that there is no conflict and ensuring that if data were coming out which might conflict Fingal County Council, that this should be prevented. I do not believe it will happen but if there was a danger of it, let us make sure that any information is ring-fenced if it is necessary, and I will make those representations at the appropriate time. Whatever about the merits of Fingal County Council, and I stand firmly behind it, I do not believe anyone is challenging the independence of the people in An Board Pleanála as the final appeal. We seem to have a pretty strong, robust system of adjudication, one with which I am totally satisfied, although I accept that Deputies from the area should be expressing those views and I hope to reassure them that Fingal County Council will make a very fine noise regulator.

On the issue of noise, several Deputies voiced the views of the residents of the area and pointed out how difficult it has been for them living with that noise and having had that pressure for many years. They are right. It is a different type of existence to live with the disturbance of airport noise on a regular basis, and I have never had to live with it. To suggest that we are in some way rushing a decision against any kind of representations in the face of all the representations of the people of the area is not true. The DAA certainly has been carrying out very serious consultations with the residents on a regular basis. Deputies may be critical of those consultations and say that they do not get results for the residents. Deputy Broughan asked me if I would meet the residents of St. Margaret's. Since I have been in office I have met numerous residents from the areas represented by Deputies Brendan Ryan, Deputy Darragh O'Brien and, I believe, Deputy Broughan. I have met representatives of residents' associations and representatives of Travellers and of farmers who are affected, who have specifically come forward to inform me, and consequently my officials and others, about the noise situation. All those have been referred by me to the DAA, after having taken copious note of what they had to say. It would be wrong to say that they are being ignored.

I refer to another comment made in the debate this evening in light of the genuine concern of residents. Deputy Farrell said there seems to be some sort of a narrative that a new regulator will change the conditions and take a different attitude to noise and to the second runway. He is right. It would be completely and utterly wrong to second-guess what the noise regulator will decide. We are not doing that. We are not second-guessing that. We do not know. The noise regulator will be utterly independent and free to make a decision, as will An Bord Pleanála when the appeal is made. We do not know what decision will be made by an independent noise regulator and to assume that something will be different or the same, or better or worse, is wrong. We do not know what it will be doing. We are responding to a European directive and appointing an entity which we believe is the best possible one to do the job. What decision it will make is an unknown. That is what good regulators do. I would be perfectly happy to accept that. We may not like its decision but we will have to abide by it.

I accept much of what the Deputies have said is very welcome and constructive. Nobody in this debate wants to see a situation where the airport's expansion is in any way obstructed. Dublin Airport is a vital part of the infrastructure and the connectivity for which this island has a compelling need. It would wrong to do anything to obstruct it. We must facilitate it but we must be sensitive to the views of the residents and the independence of any decisions that are being made. As with other means of transport, it is important that they connect to serve the people of this country and people from abroad who travel here. The prosperity of the nation depends to a large extent on our connectivity by sea, air and hauliers, and it is my job to see that Dublin Airport, as the main transit point by far for passengers, is working to full capacity. That is why any move to delay any legislation of this sort would be irresponsible and I do not want to see that happening, but responsible decisions must be taken within that particular framework.

I look forward very much to Committee and Report Stage taking place in a responsible and constructive atmosphere like the one we have had here today and yesterday. I thank the Deputies who made good suggestions and encourage them to table amendments that are in the national interest. The Government will certainly welcome them because this is too important to become some sort of a plaything for local interests. I do not believe it will become that. The Government will certainly respond in a constructive way to suggestions from other parties and groups if they both help residents and act in the greater national interest of keeping aircraft flying in and out of the country without obstruction.

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