Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

The last speaker made a lot of sense in what he said. We are having this debate at 10.30 p.m. and it is supposed to finish at 11.30 p.m. It is almost like a dirty secret. I do not know about the rest of the Deputies but I think it is embarrassing that this practice is still going on in 21st century Ireland and that people are being forced to go to moneylenders and, in some cases, illegal moneylenders to try and get a loan. Like other speakers tonight, I also spoke on Deputy Doherty's Bill back in 2012. I pointed out the urgency of the Bill and yet here we are, six years later. I am sitting here tonight thinking about the number of families that have been destroyed in that six-year period. I do not know about the Ministers of State, but I know of many families that have been caught up in this situation. Strangely enough, some of them probably would not thank us for putting forward this legislation because they see these moneylenders as a last resort and do not see an alternative. However, six years later the exorbitant rates moneylenders are allowed charge still go unchecked. Under the current arrangement moneylenders are allowed to charge up to 287% APR.

We know the people who go to these lenders. It is the desperate, the poor and credit-starved individuals who are out of their minds with money worries who are forced to use moneylenders. I do not think anyone who has an alternative goes to them. Many of these people are out of work. They are the low-paid, the marginalised, the disadvantaged, and those who have little or really bad credit. As we heard earlier, most of them are women. Despite the recovery, the so-called moneylenders are booming. Their exorbitant interest rates need to be regulated and targeted now. I welcome the fact that Fianna Fáil is supporting the Bill's progress. Moneylenders' interest rates need to be capped as soon as possible to stop the misery they are causing people. That is what this Bill is about.

These loans keep people in a cycle of poverty. For many it is a way of life. That is the sad thing. The people who are pushed into using these moneylenders are cash-poor. They have to borrow for joyous occasions as well as for sad occasions. We know of the weddings, births and communions but, as we have heard, they also have to borrow for deaths or for crises in the family such as a family member getting sick. In some cases they even borrow for simple things like medication. Many take out loans because their children are under pressure in their communities. We all know about this. Some children cannot afford the trainers or the clothes and get slagged in the school. All parents want the very best for their children. Second-best hand-me-downs, particularly coming up to special times such as Christmas, are not an option for many. They do not want to tell the kids they cannot afford a pair of shoes or football boots. The common denominator in many of these families is guilt. They feel guilty that they have not been able to provide on a more regular basis for their children.

People spoke about the credit union. Its school survey revealed that one third of those surveyed were getting into debt to meet rising back-to-school costs. The survey suggested that the average cost of sending a single child back to school is now €999 for a primary school pupil and €1,379 for a child in secondary school. How are parents on the average industrial wage, a low wage, or less than the living wage supposed to pay for this? The alternative they see is going to these moneylenders. We are straight after September when kids go back to school and now we are into Christmas and the pressure it puts on families. This time of the year is filled with worry and stress for the poor and the vulnerable. We cannot just hope that people will not use these moneylenders. We need to act and to regulate them. That is only part of the solution; we have to have alternative routes.

Some of them were mentioned tonight. One of them is the credit union movement, which has 255 branches across the State. They are in a perfect position to provide small loans for people. That needs to be publicised. There is the micro credit loan or the new "It Makes Sense Loan" from the credit union which offers small loans and much lower interest rates to borrowers. There is a wide coverage for these loans but it is not available across all credit unions. These loans have a maximum interest rate of 12%, and the loans offered are under €2,000. They are specifically aimed at those in receipt of social welfare. Householders need to know that they will be protected against unscrupulous moneylenders and that fairer alternatives are in place.

We must also address the issue of illegal moneylenders from whom the poor and vulnerable seek to borrow, which may not been touched on. When was the last time we read of an illegal moneylender being charged and convicted before the courts? I could bring the Minister of State to many a post office in my constituency, and he would probably find them in his own area, where moneylenders operate. They are not outside the post office but have their agents outside them. Some of them are also drug dealers and they collect money. They hand out cards and books to people on their way into the post office to collect their welfare payments and collect money from them on their way out. It should not be too difficult for the Garda to follow up on that activity. I know of people who have been violently attacked because they have not been able to make the massive repayments due.

People who have information about illegal moneylenders should make it available to the Garda so that a conviction can be pursued, but it is difficult for people to give evidence in those cases. Cameras are installed outside post offices and perhaps there should be further monitoring. We should be proactive in closing down such activity.

We need to act on foot of this Bill. It not good enough to be acting on it six years after it was originally introduced. There is a responsibility on us to act. This is an embarrassment. We do not talk about this issue when we go abroad. It is not something of which we as legislators should be proud. Nobody in this State should be proud of the fact that people are paying up to 287% in interest rates to illegal moneylenders. It is wrong and it must stop, and it should stop from tonight.

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