John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I shall confine my comments directly to the amendments. I am conscious that Report Stage is not a rehashing of the referendum debate or Second Stage speeches. It would be remiss of me, however, not to contribute because I, like everybody else in this House, have heard significant numbers of medical professionals, including doctors, nurses and trainee nurses and doctors, raise concerns about this matter. The issue of conscientious objection is not new; it is one that the Minister indicated quite clearly from an early stage. It was in the heads of the Bill and is referred to in section 24. The real question is whether the Bill delivers what it sets out to do.

I was not a member of the committee on the eighth amendment, nor am I a member of the health committee. In my party, much of the information for guidance and discussion comes from our health spokesperson, Deputy Donnelly, who liaised directly with the Minister on what conscientious objection would mean. It is fair to say the Minister fully subscribes to the concept of conscientious objection, and that is why the section is in the Bill. I do not doubt that in any sense whatsoever.

The Minister referred to this matter on a number of occasions. He talked about the 24-7 helpline, the referral line, and to general practitioners being able to opt in and out. I listened to a number of Members speaking tonight on this very issue. They said specifically there will be a referral line and that this is how one will deal with conscientious objection. Deputies O'Reilly and Kelleher referred to the same thing. The key point, however, concerns subsection 24(3), which was referred to earlier. It states: "A person who has a conscientious objection referred to in subsection (1) shall, as soon as may be, make such arrangements for the transfer of care of the pregnant woman concerned as may be necessary to enable the woman to avail of the termination of pregnancy concerned." That is somewhat different from what the Minister is talking about. He is giving an interpretation of what that might mean. My concern is that when the Minister and I pass through here and someone reads this law in time to come, he or she may not have the same interpretation and understanding as the Minister. Will that individual understand that the transfer of care involves the telephone line or another mechanism? I am concerned that when we pass this Bill tonight, the legislation as drafted and presented will mean something different.

I am aware that there are a number of amendments tabled tonight. Since I do not believe they will be carried, my question for the Minister is very specific. He probably cannot answer it tonight and I do not want him to. I want him to reflect on it. I want him to examine subsection 24(3) and become satisfied, with the draftspeople and Attorney General, that it delivers the types of services the Minister referred to without the placing of any additional demands or obligations on medical professionals who have decided they do not want to provide the services. This is important. We will vote on amendments tonight and the Minister knows the probable outcome but I am genuinely concerned that the subsection might not deliver in the way the Minister has interpreted it. The legislation should be drafted in such a manner that it does not depend on my interpretation or that of the Minister. It should be quite clear but I do not believe the subsection is clear.

I share some of the concerns of those in the medical profession, including junior doctors and trainee nurses, who have made up their minds. I have not questioned why they have a conscientious objection. That is their personal concern. My specific concern is that, as we vote on amendments tonight — the Minister knows the outcome — subsection 24(3) will remain. When the Minister brings the legislation to the Seanad, will he satisfy himself, through the Office of the Attorney General, that it will do as he has said it will do without the placing of any additional responsibilities on those who might be conscientious objectors?

See this speech in context