Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Despite the Deputy's best efforts, we have moved very far away from that in Ireland, thankfully. I am very proud of that.

I would like to be very clear in response to the legitimate questions that have been asked by people right across this House, including Deputies Aylward and Brassil. The law on abortion is changing, thankfully. The law on conscientious objection is not changing. Deputy Brassil asked me for clarification on the wording that is being used in relation to the transfer of care, etc. It is the same wording that was used in the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013. When wording like this is put into legislation, the Medical Council, as the regulator, transposes it into guidelines based on how it interprets it. Doctors are not regulated by me, by the Government or by the Oireachtas, but by the Medical Council. I referred at the committee on many occasions to page 35 of the Guide to Professional Conduct and Ethics for Registered Medical Practitioners, which defines what conscientious objection is and what the obligation is. It reads:

You may refuse to provide or to take part in the provision of lawful treatments or forms of care which conflict with your sincerely held ethical or moral values. If you have a conscientious objection to a treatment or form of care, you should inform patients, colleagues and your employer as early as possible. When discussing these issues with patients, you should be sensitive and considerate so as to minimise any distress your decision may cause. You should make sure that patients’ care is not interrupted and their access to care is not impeded. If you hold a conscientious objection to a treatment, you must:- inform the patient that they have a right to seek treatment from another doctor; and

- give the patient enough information to enable them to transfer to another doctor to get the treatment they want.If the patient is unable to arrange their own transfer of care [perhaps he or she is unconscious], you should make these arrangements on their behalf. In an emergency, you must make your patient’s care a priority and give necessary treatment.

That is what conscientious objection is. It is not the convoluted thing that some people have tried to make it out to be.

We have gone further by providing for a helpline that will be staffed by healthcare professionals 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Here is another bit of interesting information. Women do not want to be going from doctor to doctor as they try to find someone to help them. As functioning intelligent people, they would like to be able to pick up the phone or go on the Internet and find out where they can legally access legal and safe healthcare services in this country. The 24-7 helpline will provide non-directional information and will signpost in a way that significantly lessens the situations in which doctors will find themselves and, much more importantly, the crisis situations in which women will find themselves.

Two amendments in this group are in my name. As Deputies will be aware, I am defending the right of conscientious objection for doctors, nurses, midwives, student doctors, student nurses and student midwives. Student doctors were already covered because they are registered with their council. I am proposing amendments Nos. 52 and 53 to be absolutely certain that student nurses and student midwives also have a right to conscientious objection.

Deputy Brassil raised some issues with regard to pharmacists. As a pharmacist, he is very well informed on all of these issues. I remind the House that the code of conduct for pharmacists provides that "in instances where they are unable to provide prescribed medicines or pharmacy services to a patient they must take reasonable action to ensure these medicines/services are provided and the patient’s care is not jeopardised". The Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland, which regulates pharmacists, put information about the referendum that was held in May on its website to outline how its statutory code of conduct for pharmacists will work in this regard.

Can we dismiss the idea that I do not interact with GPs? Deputies do not have to take my word for it. Perhaps they will take the word of the clinical director of the Irish College of General Practitioners who debunked that myth on RTÉ's "Morning Ireland". I have met representatives of the college on several occasions to discuss this issue. Deputy Tóibín is right when he says I have not met individual groups of doctors who have different views on these matters.

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