Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

My view on the taking of human life is well known. Whether that is a human life in the first nine months of its existence or afterwards, I have always been consistent on the protection of human life and I intend to go on that way. As I pointed out on Second Stage, people will find that statistically the most dangerous place for a human being will be in the womb. That is a certainty if the Bill is passed, which it will be.

We are discussing amendment No. 4. I have heard two arguments, one for it and one against it. The one against it is why should those who have a fundamental objection to the taking of life of the unborn have to fund it through their taxes. The counterargument runs that if the amendment is passed, abortions would still take place, but there will effectively be a means test on it between those who are well off and those who are less well of. We are being put in a totally invidious position which is why I voted as I did on Second Stage. Once we get this far, we are getting into impossible conundrums. I never like that those who can pay can get access while those who cannot pay cannot get access. Even if the amendment were passed, would it actually change anything in terms of abortion? The reality is that it would not and furthermore it would put a financial strain on those who could least afford it to avail of what will inevitably be a service that is legal.

I raised this previously when we were talking about public money. I find it surprising that for years our maternity services, which were focused on two patients all along, were crying out for money to provide a safer, better service. They were told all the time that we could not afford it because of hard times, but suddenly we can find a large pot of money for abortion. In his reply I ask the Minister to outline the requests that have been made over the past three or four years by the health service for extra money to be allocated to maternity services to ensure that scans and other services would be available uniformly across the country. What money was sought for 2019 and what money has been given? There is something strange in not focusing on the protection of the mother and the child by having comprehensive good-quality maternity services in non-crowded maternity facilities throughout the country.

On the cost issue Deputy Donnelly mentioned, can the Minister confirm to me that no matter how long people spend in a hospital, it cannot cost them more than €800 in the public system in any one year? Certainly the rules I have read indicate that. It is important that we confirm that point. It frightens people. In my office I see many people who have lost their medical card or their GP-visit card. They have a fear of getting bills of thousands of euro if they end up in hospital. These are cases where an appeal will not work. I often have to print out the rules showing that that particular American scenario does not happen in our health service. A patient can get a heart transplant, cancer treatment and anything else in one year in a public hospital, as long as he or she can get in past the trolleys, and it costs €800 in total. I ask the Minister to confirm that on the record because it is a point that needs affirming.

I will support many other amendments to the Bill.

I will not support this particular one because it divides those with resources and those without resources. It does not deal with the fundamental issue I have with the Bill. However, I will be supporting other amendments.

On the argument about faulty wording of amendments, most amendments put down by Opposition parties are technically faulty. The position normally is that if a Minister accepts one's amendment in principle, he or she will say they cannot accept the amendment because the wording is faulty but will come back on Report Stage with an amendment that does the job. In terms of the fine combing of these amendments, what is actually happening is that, in principle, the majority of the Dáil will push these two amendments, not because of a minor wording difficulty, and good luck to them. I am the first to recognise democratically that the overwhelming majority of the Dáil would support this Bill. However, it is important that people who have a differing view would accept the principle of some amendments tabled here that we believe should have been taken on board.

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