Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am glad to get an opportunity to speak on this amendment, which I fully support. I will try to outline the reasons for this. I am delighted to get the opportunity to speak because it is part of democracy to get to speak in the Parliament. Many have tried to stifle that here tonight, but they certainly will not stifle me.

Having spoken to many people on the issue, I put it to the Minister that the people were not aware their taxes would be funding the procedures that would end the most innocent lives in Irish society. With regard to abortion clinics, or hospitals, in a poll last August up to 60% of respondents claimed they did not want their taxes paying for abortions. That is a huge number of people, and it is people who were not aware of this situation when they went to vote in the referendum. I listened to many Deputies who spoke here tonight. Some of them were very respectful while others were questionable. One Deputy said that we do not know what a woman's financial situation is. I accept that we do not know this. We do not know anybody's financial situation but I certainly know about the thousands of women, men and children and their financial situation when they are looking for an emergency procedure they cannot have because the State cannot afford to give it to them. That is a very serious issue and it is probably why there much frustration among the public. While some people voted for abortion they did not vote to pay for the abortion and now they feel that they will be paying for these procedures.

I met many people along the route throughout this campaign and, being honest, most of them were against it. Obviously they would have known where I came from on the issue, but in my clinic I also met people who were for abortion. I was respectful to them and they were respectful to me. I gave them the opportunity to give their views and I listened to them very carefully, in the same way I respect people who listen to me tonight and who give me the opportunity to speak.

We have to look at other countries that have and pay for abortions because Ireland does not have abortion. One person who had done much research on abortion told me that in the UK, a huge percentage, which I believe is 40% - unfortunately I did not write down the percentage - of women have a second abortion. The state pays for the second abortion also and I assume that will happen here too. In many cases in the UK, a high percentage of women have had up to eight abortions. I do not like this. There are two issues. The first is that I do not believe the state wants to pay for continuous abortions. The other aspect is that I hope information and statistics are being kept on these women because some might be abused and perhaps they are being forced into having the abortions. If a women is having numerous abortions, then something is wrong. I hope this statistic would be there to protect the woman. I do not believe that this information is being recorded in the UK. It could be the case that a partner is forcing a woman to have an abortion. It is a high percentage and it needs to be looked at.

Deputy Healy-Rae is right. Bantry General Hospital cannot afford to have a consultant. People are desperately in need of continuing medical procedures, yet we cannot afford it. We can, however, afford the many millions of euro the Minister has put aside for this measure. There was no consultation with the Dáil but a phenomenal amount of money is being put aside for these procedures. It is we, the taxpayer, who will have to fork out. That would be fine if we saw equality and that other people were not suffering. While it is great that every week busloads of people are taken abroad to get their cataracts, hips and knees done, because it cannot be done in the State, that is done to help them and to make sure they have a quality of life, so that they can have their sight back and so that perhaps they will not suffer later on with mental health issues. It is not the loss of a lovely little child.

Reference was made by a Deputy to a businessman backing us. The Deputy many have meant all of us but I certainly have no businessman or businesswoman behind me. We have put forward these amendments and we have been very respectful throughout this debate, be it in this House or in committee. We put forward the least number of amendments. We were the ones who were supposed to be disruptive and the ones who were going to filibuster. We are not filibustering and we did not put forward the dozens of amendments that were brought forward by those who support abortion. They are entitled to do that, but we put forward a limited number of amendments, of which this is one. I am delighted to get the opportunity to speak on it. The Minister said that he had engaged with transgender groups on the Bill, and there is nothing wrong with that. We would like to have had extra meetings prior to this matter going to the health committee. Deputies asked for that but were refused. I am aware of medical people who also requested meetings with the Minister but they were refused. We now find ourselves in a crisis because many of them do not want to administer this procedure. About a week and a half ago, I went to a meeting to which the Minister invited me and I appreciated the opportunity to go. I raised three questions and not one was answered at that meeting. The Minister, however, did everything in his power to answer every other question posed by those who supported and who wanted to bring in the Bill. I waited for answers but I did not get them. I was not going to bend over backwards. I put the questions forward and the Minister wrote them down but he did not get to them.

I will support this amendment and a number of others. I will certainly not be filibustering but I will take the opportunity to speak. I do not believe the people wanted their taxes to pay for abortions. It is millions of euro that should be spent on the people who are losing their eyesight, suffering severe pain in their hips or who need other procedures, which are not happening.

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