Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I am sure the Acting Chairman does not want this to develop into a broad discussion but I want to briefly address a few of the points that have been made. First, the Minister referenced the annual report of the Insolvency Service of Ireland. If he looks at the statistics we have so far for the lifetime of the service he will see that there is a problem when it comes to getting proposals approved and over the line.

To take the figures for personal insolvency arrangements, which is the form that involves secured debt, there was a "Yes" vote in respect of 51% of agreements between the fourth quarter of 2014 and the third quarter of 2018. From almost five years of data we see that there is a "Yes" vote in 51% of cases. There is a "No" vote in more than 39% of cases and in the case of approximately 10% protective certificates expired. The "Yes" vote has not been provided in 49% of cases. These decisions follow an exhaustive process whereby the personal insolvency practitioner, PIP, as the independent person who does not act for the borrower or the lender, looks at the case in full and makes a recommendation. In half of those cases there is a failure to deliver a "Yes" vote. That is a point we have been making. There is an issue there about the veto which is in place.

There is a mechanism under section 115A of the Personal Insolvency Act 2012 to appeal to the insolvency court. That is not working. It can take a year or more for cases to come through and in the meantime there is immense pressure on the families concerned who are caught up in that situation. I will talk to the Minister again about how that issue needs to be looked at but in 50% of cases there is a failure to deliver a "Yes" vote on proposals coming from an independent professional who is qualified to deal with them.

On the issue of non-performing loans, NPLs, there is undoubtedly pressure from Europe. It comes from the Single Supervisory Mechanism, SSM, and from its agent here in the form of the Central Bank. When I went to Frankfurt with the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach to meet with the chairperson of the SSM, Danièle Nouy, I told her that it was fine for her to say that she is not advising any individual bank to sell loan portfolios, but that she is also telling them that they must reduce their NPL levels to the European average of 4% to 5%. She shot me down straight away. She said that she had not set any target for the banks to reach in reducing their NPL levels. She said that to us openly.

I know what it is going on. I know the pressure is undoubtedly there but she explicitly told members of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach that no target or figure, including the European norm, had been set to which the banks were to reduce their level of NPLs nor had banks been advised to sell loan portfolios. It is important to put that on the record because that is what was said. There were many people in the room who will confirm that.

It is also important to acknowledge that the farm organisations strongly support this legislation. They have come before the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach and have explained their frustration at trying to deal with these vulture funds on behalf of farmers to try to get restructuring agreements over the line.

On the issue of whom the contact is going to be with, it is worth pointing out that the benefit to a fund of appointing a credit servicing firm is that it can avoid regulation and maintain the status of being an unregulated loan owner. When this legislation becomes law that will no longer be the case because the loan owners, the people ultimately making the decisions on the strategy and the portfolio, will be required to be regulated. That will involve the imposition of requirements by the Central Bank. Becoming a regulated entity is an onerous process. The Central Bank will set certain standards and require certain things to be done to ensure that regulation is fully put in place and vindicated in that respect.

It is worth acknowledging what Deputy McGuinness has said as Chairman of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach. That committee went to great lengths to get these funds before the committee to answer straightforward questions. They would have been given a fair hearing but time and again they have refused point blank to come before the committee to be questioned about their business models, about how they treat customers and about why they wish to remain unregulated. I am thankful that we are at least dealing with that last issue, but it is important to put that on the record as well.

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