Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

-----again, the Deputy should check his facts before he makes accusations in the House. Some parts of rural Ireland has been in decline for many years, although not all parts. They were let decline and there was no effort to save rural Ireland or to give certain parts of the country a function or a reason to prosper, or the opportunity to prosper. It is not because of changes to one-off planning. That has not led to the decline of rural Ireland. In some areas where we see services being removed, such as a post office, the population has gone up. People choose not to use the service. That is different. Yes, in other areas, it is because of a population decline, but not in all areas. Deputies are right to do the research and the checking, but there are different reasons for different things.

Sometimes services closed because either nobody wanted to use them or they were not used enough to make them viable. That is different to a decline in population.

I reiterate what I have stated on previous occasions, namely, that I, as a Deputy from rural Ireland, have no difficulty in declaring that the saving of rural Ireland is in Project Ireland 2040. It is a thought-out plan on how to make living in rural Ireland sustainable. It concerns how to give villages, towns and cities a regional presence and build them up in order that they can serve rural Ireland and accommodate one-off housing. As Deputy Pringle correctly stated - I have also said this previously - not all of those who want to live in rural Ireland want to live in such housing. Many people want to do so, however, and we have to support them and change what we can in order to make it happen. Many others want to live in rural Ireland. They are quite happy to live in towns or villages but not necessarily out in the country. Deputy Pringle was also correct when he stated that they did not have the option previously because they could not afford to do it. I fully agree with that we should bring forward proposals to use State-owned land, where possible, and other land in order to make it easy, viable and economical to live in a village or on the edge of it. That has not happened in the past but it is envisaged in Project Ireland 2040. I will be happy to support the Deputy in that and do some of the work as well.

The other point Deputy Pringle made to the effect that it is often not cost-effective to build a one-off house is also correct. That fact was lost in the debate on water charges. It was completely and utterly lost in the context of the cost for a rural dweller of ensuring that his or her house is connected to water and wastewater services. Deputy Pringle led the charge against water charges, which was an attempt to try to balance matters a little and to fund services. We can not have it every which way. I agree that there are high costs to living in rural Ireland. One of them is putting in treatment facilities. We agree that it is important that we treat drinking water and wastewater.

People are saying that this is a great Bill and that what it proposes has to be done. It is not the full solution and that is why we have asked for a deferral for a number of months. The amendment refers to a period of 12 months but the Minister was very clear in stating that we hope to complete our work before that. There are two pieces of work under way. Deputy Pringle and many others claim that it will never happen. However, the work to which I refer is almost finished. A review group was set up by the Joint Committee on the Future Funding of Domestic Water Services. It is bringing forward a policy change and recommendations. That process is under way. The EPA will also to publish a new revised code of practice for wastewater treatment and disposal systems serving single houses for public consultation in early 2019.

The 12-month period I mentioned is the worst-case scenario. We are committed to trying to do it before that. Work is under way to allow this to happen. As a result, we are asking for a deferral in order to allow that work to be completed so that we can all come together to bring forward solutions. The potential licensing arrangement is not the full solution. It could possibly be part of the solution. In some cases these licences are already allowed, if they are wanted, and, in other cases, they are not used or the situation is complicated. I am just saying that it is not the full solution. What we actually have to devise is a cost-effective solution. In fairness, I have conversed with councillors from Leitrim - John McCartin, Séan McDermott, Frank Dolan and others - on numerous occasions. Deputy McLoughlin has been to meet me and has also put forward solutions. He had hoped to be here tonight to take part in this debate.

I informed to Deputy Martin Kenny that the solution to this is all of us working together. He understands that but I want to be clear that we support effective solutions. Leitrim officials in charge of planning, such as Mr. Joseph Gilhooly, have brought forward solutions. The people in the planning system are happy to try to find solutions, have engaged with our Department and the EPA and have brought in researchers from University College Dublin and elsewhere. They are trying to find a solution but it has to be cost-effective. Everyone states that a licence is needed. That is only part of the solution; we need to find the second part. That is what the research and the work we are doing involve. There are many solutions available. This Bill does not specify a particular solution. I accept that. The difficulty with the various solutions is that many of them are expensive. Others are not. We have to make sure we get this right and that was what the researchers were trying to do. We support trying to find a solution. I have attended meetings of Leitrim County Council and I addressed all of the councillors and different parties there. I said to them straight up we have to try to find solutions. We are engaged in a process and in some cases it will work. We have to make it work because we want it to be viable.

In some parts of Leitrim, only 20 or 30 one-off houses were built in many years. That was even before these changes. That is an area that can cope with one-off housing, as can other places such as parts of Cavan, Donegal and Sligo. If we can sort out these environmental issues, Leitrim is a county that can cope. We can do that and we are committed to doing it. I wish to make it clear that we want to work to find solutions. We are asking for a common-sense deferral of the Bill while we await the two pieces of work that have commenced and that are going to be completed. Then, in a logical way and with the full agreement of this House, we can bring forward solutions. We all agree we want solutions in Leitrim and other counties.

We are supportive and we all recognise the importance of the sustainable development of one-off housing in an appropriate way. That is what we encourage. We ask that the Bill be deferred but I guess that is not going to happen. People have to realise what the conversation is about here but they should not try to state that we are against one-off housing or that it does not happen at all. That is not factually correct. It is important that we get that right when we are having the conversation as well. I understand the intention behind the Bill and I listened to all of the contributions. I recognise the positive elements to the Bill. We had some engagement on it and we are hoping to have more as well.

Maintaining and developing viable rural communities, and the economy and the environment to allow that to happen, is a key challenge for the State. We have to have a sympathetic approach to achieving this. It is a challenge we are up for and it is a challenge that Project Ireland 2040, the national planning framework and the investment of taxpayers' money behind that will make happen. If people want to live in rural Ireland, they need a reason to be there. They have to have access to jobs and services. We need to build up the areas that can either attract or create jobs. None of this is possible without a healthy environment. Other development efforts will prove futile in the long term if we do not get that right and protect the environment. There is a growing recognition that water quality is a great asset but also a great challenge and responsibility. That is why we want to get it right. I have no problem stating that this is taking longer than anyone thought. I accept that. This change was made by previous Governments. Some people spoke as if they were never in government. The change was made a long time ago, however. We have been focusing on solutions for the past year or two. The Department has engaged with Leitrim County Council and the councillors there across the various parties. We have made good progress. The Bill, or one like it with provision for a licensing arrangement, could be part of that but it is not the only solution. It makes common sense to defer it for a few months as we all try to work on this. It should be a non-political issue if we all agree.

See this speech in context