Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I wish the Minister well in his new portfolio; I am sorry that he has been greeted with this matter. I worked with him when he was Chief Whip and he was very co-operative. I know he will be same in his new role.

My questions are similar to those asked by Deputy Wallace. I want to declare an interest in this as I am a plant hire contractor. I have worked in many jobs. To lay a simple water main one has to pressure test the water main before it is finished with a certain pressure to detect leaks and bursts. It is simple. The Minister said that clerks of works cannot be expected to look at every block. They certainly can be expected to do that. They can look at every wall to make sure they are level and strapped up in the correct way. We have become too fancy, with too many DBO contracts. I welcomed those contracts because it seemed they would speed up the process, and I also welcomed PPPs. Perhaps I am going to have to reconsider that. We have lazy and lethargic people working as clerks of works. I remember dealing with clerks of works when I was involved in building houses. One particular chap would have a spirit level on a letterbox, and if it was out a fraction, even if it was not noticeable to the naked eye, it would have to be changed. Now there are no clerks of works. They are the people inside in the building on a daily basis. The Minister is correct about the thickness of the steel; the clerk of works should have stopped that job, or had the power to stop it. We have to empower the inspectors.

We have all kinds of design, cosy cartels and arrangements. Deputy Wallace was right in what he said. Many contractors contacted me. Unless one has a turnover of €1 million one cannot tender for a job. What is big is not wonderful. We have seen that with the group that had a meat empire, with the vulture funds, with the Coolmore empire, which is now buying everything, and with the supermarkets. The small people, na daoine beaga, are the people who keep Ireland ticking over and who kept it gong during the recession, not the big powerful entities.

Why is the line of command not in place during the design, build and operate process with the design being properly assessed by engineers in the Department? We have so much regulation, bookwork and paperwork but paper does not build houses and schools, or keep them standing. Health and safety is a vital issue. All the brickies going onto those sites had to be kitted out to the last with everything, including face masks, and rightly so, yet a building is constructed that is faulty and could fall down and, God forbid, destroy lives. I want to add my voice to the thanks to the patrons of the schools, the boards of management, the parents council and the parents and the students for their co-operation. This is frightening for people. We have some fine new schools in my constituency which were delivered under the design, build and operate, DBO, process and a fabulous job was done but we are now thinking about them in terms of safety as problems were found in schools elsewhere built by the same company that built those schools in our constituency. However, if one walked through them, one would think a fine and noble job was done on their construction.

We need to be able to trust the system and have a clerk of works who would have the support of an engineer, or a clerk of works who would have his or her own qualification and engineering support, and who would be able to withstand the might of the big contractors and say that he or she takes that responsibility. It is no good in terms of responsibility if the steel in the construction is too small or too light and it is gives way and does not have the holding power or strength.

The Minister should get rid of the plethora of senior officials in his Department and allow the people on the ground who know what they are talking about to implement the regulations but, first, he should get rid of half of the regulations. We have overkill with all the regulations. We are not implementing the basic ground rules of good building with a design, build and construct process and to standards that should be delivered. Can the Minister give us those guarantees, including that there will be a clean out in the Department of Education and Skills? I understand there was a whistleblower. I did not have proper evidence of that two years ago but that whistleblower was pushed aside. We need whistleblowers but we all know what is going on.

Deputy Wallace hit it on the head. How can companies get billions of euro worth of contracts? What about the small contractors who have track records, can deliver these projects, employ local people and pay all the sub-contractors? When the contractors leave they are gone and the sub-contractors are left with bills and to deal with structural elements. Will the Minister give us a guarantee that he will get rid of half the dead weight in the Department, bring in people who understand this area and have them follow through the building process from the turning of the sod to the turning of the key?

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