Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I completely accept this is a matter of the utmost sensitivity. I acknowledge the pain and trauma that many people continue to feel owing to the events in Tuam and, in particular, the burial of children at the site.

The Government approval to accept the recommendation for the forensic excavation of the site of the former mother and baby home in Tuam, County Galway, is welcome, even though I still believe questions need to be asked about what can be achieved. The Government has agreed to implement the multidisciplinary framework as the appropriate response to the discovery of children's remains interred at the site, yet we know that a report presented to the Government in December of last year made it clear that separating the bones found at the Tuam mother and baby home into individual sets of remains could prove to be an impossible task. We know from Dr. Geoffrey Shannon's analysis that the report of the expert technical group states:

There are a number of factors that make this situation unique: - The forensic requirement of the site;

- The 'significant' quantities of juvenile remains;

- The commingled or intermixed state of the remains;

- The position of the remains within subsurface chambers, with limited access.

The report concludes that the comingled state of the remains renders identification "particularly challenging". Moreover, the expert technical group report states there is a "risk of destruction to human remains" that raises ethical issues. I would like the Minister to be specific about what has changed since those findings were presented and how she and the Department intend to identify and address these ethical issues.

I welcome the families, loved ones and supporters who are in the Visitors Gallery. We are appalled at the very thought of what happened but some Deputies and many others just wish to keep attacking the sisters. There were obviously many more people involved. Who gave planning permission for the chambers? Who constructed them? Who placed the human remains in these tanks? It could not have happened without these individuals. The children were under the charge of the health board, the regional health board, the county council and the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government. Are we going to lay all the blame in one area without full acknowledgement and a respectful investigation to find out who was involved?

None of us could say we do not know some people in our past who were sent away. I mentioned a woman before, Peig, who turned out to be a wonderful neighbour. I did not even know she existed. She was banished when she became pregnant. This was with the acquiescence of the families and, indeed, many others. We can all wash our hands and apportion blame.

I appeal to the Minister to address the serious issues affecting young people who are living today. I got calls about this today. There are disturbed children with no access to child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS. It is impossible to avail of the services in my area. The children need psychological services and treatments to deal with autism and ADHD. The waiting times for young children in these circumstances are appalling. Languishing in the paediatric ward in South Tipperary General Hospital, Clonmel, are adolescents aged between 11 and 14 who are very disturbed and have mental health issues. They are distressed themselves and distressing their families. They are also distressing all the other sick children who are in the hospital for the treatment of normal illnesses. We are just ignoring the present circumstances. It is fine to look back but we must also look forward and at the present.

I accept all the hurt in Tuam but it was not all down to the sisters' orders. There were others involved. Who is holding them to account? Are they being held to account? It is important that they should be.

Deputy Bríd Smith referred to the profits of Bon Secours Health Systems. They were champions here when we did not have health services or medical services. There were also champions in education. It was not all bad, vicious, violent and destructive. We must recognise that also when we note the costs today - €17 billion plus - and the inadequate, terrible scandalous state of neglect. I got a call today from the parent of a young man who was in the hospital in my area last night. He was waiting for hours in corridors with trolleys. We cannot just keep washing our hands of the past and ignoring the blatant realities of the future. We cannot and must not. We certainly must have justice in respect of what happened, and justice must be for all, not just for a select few to be held up to be kicked around.

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