Dáil debates

Thursday, 25 October 2018

Third Interim Report of the Disclosures Tribunal: Statements (Resumed)

 

1:40 pm

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I am sure all Members of the House will join with me in expressing the hope that the publication of the recent report by the disclosures tribunal will represent a turning point for Sergeant Maurice McCabe, his wife, Lorraine, and his family. Since its publication I have spoken with Sergeant McCabe directly in order to express my personal good wishes for him, Lorraine, and his family. No words of mine could describe better than Mr. Justice Charleton's the great wrongs which were done to Maurice McCabe by those in senior positions in An Garda Síochána and, indeed, by the prevailing culture. The tribunal's report sets out eloquently and unsparingly the deeply troubling realities we have to confront. Mr. Justice Peter Charleton had an onerous and complex task. He is entitled to the fullest of appreciation for the thorough and expeditious manner in which he did this. He has discharged his task fully in the public interest. There are, of course, many issues outlined in the report. Deputies have referred to some of them. It must now be considered in detail and responded to comprehensively. Above all, we now have an independent and objective assessment of the facts, which was the reason we in this House decided to establish the tribunal in the first place.

On a personal note, I want to acknowledge that Sergeant McCabe has, and did in the past, make clear that he had no criticisms of me or of how I dealt with the matters in question. His approach, both in November and when appearing personally at the tribunal, contrasted greatly with what I experienced in the Dáil in November and in the responses from some political parties more recently. I can live my life quite contentedly without an apology from the Deputies involved but none of us should stand for an attempt to rewrite facts. For too long, some of the matters at the centre of this report have been approached by others on the basis of what they choose to believe and assert, rather than the facts that have been established. Some Deputies were willing to pay more attention to what is described in the report as "snippets" of information. More Deputies piled in when details of the serious mistakes in Tusla emerged and implied that An Garda Síochána must have been involved. The Minister, Deputy Zappone, will address some of those issues later.

A very understandable concern at how Sergeant McCabe was treated sometimes set at nought the right of others to a good name. As I said in the Dáil, we were in danger of trying to remedy one injustice by creating others. That is something we all need to reflect on when considering this report. In this House we were unwilling to wait for Mr. Justice Charleton to look at these matters, despite the fact that he was doing so at the request of the Oireachtas.

The House will remember that I established the disclosures tribunal on 17 February 2017 following receipt of very disturbing information through protected disclosures made by a member of An Garda Síochána to me in my then capacity as Minister for Justice and Equality. I referred that information to Mr. Justice Iarfhlaith O'Neill and requested that he review the allegations of wrongdoing contained in those disclosures. In light of his inquiries, Mr. Justice O'Neill concluded that he was not in a position to make a determination on the truth or falsehood of the allegation and that a commission of investigation should be established. There were extensive discussions here with all Deputies on all sides of the House, with all spokespeople on justice and so on, as well as with the McCabe family, and we agreed that we would establish the tribunal.

I hope that Deputies can accept, in the light of the findings of the Charleton report, that the allegations relating to former Commissioner Nóirín O'Sullivan were not upheld. One thing is clear. The thrust of the charges made then was that Commissioner O'Sullivan had improperly tried to undermine Sergeant Maurice McCabe at the O'Higgins commission where, it was asserted, he was being treated completely inappropriately and that I, my Department, or both had either conspired with or acquiesced in that approach. The tribunal finds that no such situation requiring intervention by me as a Minister occurred before the O'Higgins commission. The judge also notes that a incidental situation could have arisen which would have required the Minister or the Attorney General to intervene. It did not. These allegations have been found by the tribunal to be unsupported by evidence. The tribunal did not find any evidence that the former Commissioner was party to the calumny visited upon Sergeant McCabe or of any wrongdoing on her part in respect of Superintendent Taylor. I take this opportunity to thank the former Commissioner for what I experienced when working with her, that is, her hard work and dedication to An Garda Síochána. Her position was called into question here because of what was alleged to have happened at the O'Higgins commission, which it now transpires did not happen at all. I know the personal and family toll which unsubstantiated allegations can bring.

Of course, on a personal level I am pleased that I was found to have acted appropriately and to have used my judgment well and that my evidence has been accepted as truthful. While by last November I had moved from the Department of Justice and Equality, Mr. Justice Charleton found that the Department had acted quite properly in respect of the commission. In fact, there are many dedicated public servants in the Department of Justice and Equality, notwithstanding the changes and reforms that have been recommended.

It is deeply worrying that politicians would use the shelter of Parliament to defame public servants. Had someone done this outside the House legal recourse would have been possible and predictable but inside the Dáil it is untouchable but printable. Unsupported defamation is walked into our national press wrapped in the cloak of Dáil privilege. Defamation laundering is not what this privilege was designed for. It is tempting to jump to conclusions in complex situations but in both politics and the media, this must be tempered by respect for facts and due process. Equally, in taking measures such as the establishment of the tribunal itself, I have always have had to have regard to the rights of both those making the allegations and those against whom allegations had been made. Those who think that due process and fair procedure can be cast aside for reasons of political expediency do a disservice to the values of our democracy. The public sees right through this. My experience in the past year suggests strongly that the public is very clear about this. I make these points not to engage in any recrimination but to suggest that we all, both inside and outside the House, need to reflect on how, in some instances, what was in effect fake news came to be accepted as true and was acted on to the detriment of others.

A Minister for Justice and Equality cannot assume the truth of all allegations that have been made against others without them having been objectively assessed and everyone involved being treated with basic fairness. The seriousness of allegations or their constant repetition as if they were established fact does not affect the fundamental point in the House. When allegations of wrongdoing are made, they need to be investigated fully and impartially, and that is exactly what Mr. Justice Charleton has done. While not all such allegations warrant the establishment of a tribunal of inquiry, we need to accept the established methods of investigation such as GSOC being ably led by Ms Justice Mary Ellen Ring, the Policing Authority being led by Josephine Feehily and the various recommendations that have now been made by the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland. These are appropriate places for various issues to be examined.

Of course, we need to examine improvements that can be made in those bodies, the supports we can give them and how we can help them to do their work better, but it is an important principle of the House that we rely on an independent investigation of these matters by those equipped to carry them out. Political playacting should have no part in dealing with such serious issues. I have no doubt that many good members of An Garda Síochána will be disheartened by what is in the report. We need to make a clear distinction between the bad behaviour of a few members, however senior, and the excellent work done by many members of An Garda Síochána. As Minister for Justice and Equality, I recognised that while An Garda Síochána had generally served us well, serious problems, some of which Members have referred to, beset the organisation. Mr. Justice Charleton is very clear about those. Anyone reading his report and his discussion of what the role of An Garda Síochána should be will be impressed.

I congratulate Commissioner Drew Harris on his appointment. Yesterday, he said the findings of Mr. Justice Peter Charleton are a clarion call for action. He said cultural change, which is now so necessary in the Garda, comes from behavioural change. He said his senior team will lead this, including by emphasising the code of conduct. He also said there should be intervention for poor performance involving support, supervision and extra training. He said in cases of serious misconduct where one's trust in an individual is entirely broken the person has no place in the organisation. We all agree with that. He recognises the scale of the challenges he faces. I hope the House will support his work and the work of the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, and the Department in moving forward the reforms.

Mr. Justice Charleton makes a point that is central, which is the leaking of a protected disclosure to the Oireachtas and the media. Those who were the subject of these allegations had little or no opportunity to respond. The concept of the presumption of innocence is fundamental to our legal system. The leaking of this information, which had been provided in accordance with the Protected Disclosures Act 2014, was an abuse of the Act. The legislation was introduced to protect genuine whistleblowers when reporting what they reasonably believed to be genuine wrongs. Of course, we have to support whistleblowers who are attempting to bring various issues to light. We must act on the lessons from Mr. Justice Charleton's report and the extensive reforms under way should greatly assist in avoiding such dark episodes in the future.

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