Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Approximately a week ago, the UK Labour Party's spokesperson on Brexit, Mr. Keir Starmer, MP, addressed an all-party meeting in the Oireachtas.

He quoted part of what he wrote in an article in The Irish Timesin which he stated:

More of the same simply will not do.

We need a fresh approach, one that recognises it is only through a combination of a new customs union, a strong single market deal and shared institutions that we find a solution that works for Ireland, the UK and across the EU.

Very few of us would disagree if that were to be the outcome but, to be honest, it is typical of the type of magical thinking that is going on. When we spoke to Mr. Starmer about it, he said that in effect the day after, or some period after, Britain has left, it would immediately sit down with the 27 member states, individually or collectively and collectively would be the desire, to hammer out a deal to provide for the customs union and the Single Market. The magical thinking is that this is what Britain has at present through its membership of the European Union. It found that in a referendum the people said they wanted to leave the Union. In recent days, we have had a lot of evidence that the campaign by various British newspapers for a second referendum to support remaining in the EU has gathered pace. At the British Labour Party conference, a significant proportion of delegates appear to favour this. There certainly has been political movement in the UK as the perception begins to dawn on what it might mean, with some scary scenarios been painted even by Tory supporting tabloid newspapers that it could mean miles of queues to the ports on the English Channel, a shortage of medicines, which are imported and exported through various countries in the Union, and other impacts.

The fact is that members of the Government have come home from Salzburg with hope in their hearts but their hands are empty. Being involved in a negotiation is drawn-out process. One does not get the answer all at once. The EU has well-established customs and practices, which mean that as we near the witching hour of having to make a decision, the Heads of State are in the room, and the other Heads of State gather recalcitrant members around to persuade them that in the greater good they have to act in a particular way. Herein lies a genuine problem for Ireland and an enormous problem for the Government. Everybody is apprehensive about any rebuilding or reincarnation of the Border as we knew it. Anything such as this would be very difficult for people in Ireland to swallow and would also put in danger the huge dividends, difficult and all as the earning of those have been, of the Belfast Agreement and the peace process.

Earlier in the summer, and other people in the Chamber may have seen it also, I went to see the film "Munich", which is based on Robert Harris's novel about 1938. In it, Chamberlain brought back what was described as "peace in our time". Clearly, the Taoiseach is trying to bring back a Brexit agreement in our time. As was said about Czechoslovakia and the Sudetenland Germans at the time, it was a faraway country about which people knew little. For many people in Vienna or Berlin, those places feel like the centre of Europe, and geographically they are. Naturally, we in Ireland are the centre of our own world but we have to ask ourselves what exactly is the view of the 27 member states. Excellent diplomatic work has been done to keep the 27 member states together and to negotiate under Mr. Barnier's direction as a single force but the Government cannot deny that at this point in time, we should have the shape of an agreement. The Taoiseach arrived back in a way that is a reminder of that period in European history, with papers in his hands stating he had a bullet-proof backstop. This part of the conversation has to be about exploring what exactly that now means. The answer, hopefully, is that it could mean an awful lot but, in a negative outturn, it could mean extraordinary difficulties for us.

The meeting last week was attended by many people from the Border counties and several from the North of Ireland. Anybody who knows the Border knows its complexity and its extreme porousness, with hundreds of formal and informal crossings, and knows that just occasionally having a friendly customs official ten miles south or north of Dundalk is not a runner. I plead with the Minister of State to share with us the Government's concept of what this would look like. The Revenue Commissioners have told us they are ready to take on the required staff. Is there a partial IT-based solution? Of course there would be over a period of three to five years but the IT has to be developed. Logistics in Ireland are not as developed as they are in many other countries because we are at the end of a long run. If the discussion here is to be of any use, the Minister of State needs to share with us how she and the Government propose to address the issue of the Border.

We must bear in mind that both communities in the North recognise they benefit enormously from the effective disappearance of the Border as it once was, and this is often forgotten. Except for those who take a political view, most people North of the Border, and certainly people in the Unionist camp whom I have met, would like the Border to continue as it now. Ports and airports are the easiest way to do this and, of course, ports and airports have an accepted customs and police presence. Will the Minister of State paint a picture of what she anticipates happening? Going back to Keir Starmer's simple and honest remarks about a new customs union, a strong Single Market and shared institutions, the issue for us is how we get these. In a certain sense, a two-year extension which, like everybody else, I assume would work for the full two years, would give us additional time but, nonetheless, we need a legal agreement. Britain has voted. The first day after the result of the referendum I said I would love the British people to have an opportunity to reconsider their position, as we did on several occasions.

7 o’clock

There are many ultra-left people in Ireland who do not like the European Union but the Union has been one of the great modernising forces in Ireland in terms of employment, women's rights, disability rights and environmental concerns. I will close by again saying that I am not getting what the Government's suggested solution is to this difficulty. The Minister of State must share her confidence with the House.

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