Dáil debates

Tuesday, 10 July 2018

Ceisteanna - Questions

Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

4:45 pm

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

It is not the full amount, but it will be by the end of the year. It is being paid in in tranches on the basis of an agreed schedule. I do not know why it is not part of the Exchequer returns. I will ask the Minister for Finance to provide an answer for Deputy Joan Burton in that respect. I am sure there is a good reason, but I honestly do not know what it is.

Ireland is not a tax haven and we do not want it to be one. We certainly do not want it to be seen as a tax haven. That is not our industrial policy at all. We are working with the OECD, particularly in the base erosion and profit-sharing process, to remove loopholes in our tax system that companies or individuals might use to exploit our tax laws. We have got rid of the double Irish arrangement. We have also got rid of the idea of state discorporations. Under the information sharing agreements we now have, we share with the revenue commissioners in other countries how much tax individual companies are paying. It is really important for us to know how much they are paying in Germany or Ireland because it enables us to make sure tax is being paid. Today the Cabinet signed off on a further OECD-led international agreement on tax transparency and base erosion and profit sharing. It will be ratified by the Dáil and enable us to deal with the issue further.

To be frank, large corporations should pay their taxes. They should pay them in full and where they are owed. Often, there are disputes about how much is owed and where it is owed. That applies to all taxpayers.

We dispute the European Commission's view that Ireland gave Apple state aid by means of a special bespoke tax deal. I ask Deputies to bear in mind that this is a state aid, rather than a tax, case. We dispute the Commission's argument that many decades ago Ireland gave Apple state aid in the form of a special tax deal that was not open to other companies. Ultimately, the matter will be decided in the European court. We do not yet have a court date. The date for the appeal is at the discretion of the court. It is expected that we will receive approximately six weeks' notice. Although Apple's appeal is separate from Ireland's, given that they relate to the same subject matter, it is possible that the court will arrange for the cases to be heard together in what is known as a rejoinder. The US Government sought for the court to intervene in Apple's appeal, but this was rejected by the general court of the European Court of Justice.

I was asked whether housing had come up during the discussion. Yes, it did. Almost every time I meet the chief executive of a major corporation, he or she raises the issue of housing. It is a major concern for citizens looking for homes in which to live. It is a major concern for employers also because their employees need homes in which to live. Increasing housing and rental costs are putting upward pressure on wages. This is one of the areas in which the Government, the Opposition and the big corporations are totally aligned. Nobody disputes that we need more housing in Ireland. Mr. Cook and I had a particular discussion about the need to build many new homes in Cork in the context of the increasing Apple workforce in Hollyhill.

I had a very interesting discussion with Mr. Cook on the proportion of Apple employees who now work from home. Between one quarter and one third of Apple employees work from home. This has huge benefits. It means that more people can live in other parts of Cork and Munster and work from home. If they have to go into the office just one or two days a week, it makes good sense in finding affordable housing and good planning. It also spreads the benefits of investment well beyond Cork city to a much wider region. As broadband is extended to more and more parts of the country, the opportunities for more and more people to work from home are enormous. That will help in dealing with the transport problems and traffic congestion we face in cities. It will also help in dealing with climate change. We had a really interesting discussion on that issue. Apple could have even more employees working from home. Other employers might be able to follow its example by increasing the level of working from home. It would be useful for parents - men and women - if we could enable more of them to work from home.

I was also asked about the minimum effective rate of corporation tax. I will have to study it because I have not looked at it for a couple of years. I will have to understand its impact before being able to say whether it is a good idea.

One would certainly have to consider the impact it would have on research and development, the knowledge box and intellectual property. A big part of our industrial strategy is to encourage more research and development, more intellectual property development and more value creation at the highest end in Ireland. If the introduction of a minimum effective tax rate were to undermine our knowledge box, it would undermine our industrial policy and tax base. That would not be a good move. I would have to understand how the proposals being made by the Labour Party and others would affect the knowledge box, particularly research and development. Without having studied this, which I admit is the case, I would be concerned that it would be damaging. I would have to study it properly to give an informed view.

I do not have the documents that Deputy McDonald has, or at least I do not have them in front of me. The change that was made to our tax laws at the time in question was linked to the abolition of the double Irish. That is why the decision was made at the time. It has been already reversed. It was reversed by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, in the last budget, if not the one before.

The matters to which Deputy McDonald referred were not discussed at the meeting I had with Tim Cook. I was not at the meeting in question. I do not have the minutes.

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