Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I served on the same council as Deputy Breathnach. Over the years that I was a member very fine people from both sides served on it. One of the people I would like to mention is the late Tom Bellew, who sat as a councillor and also sat in this House as a Fianna Fáil Deputy, I think he was on the Government benches at the time. He was quite a politician and he fought his corner well, sometimes in very difficult ways. One thing he did which I always admired him for was to put together a group of people who built their own homes in Dundalk. I remember going to meet him with some people from Drogheda. He met us on a Sunday afternoon because it was the only time that would suit everybody. It was a prime example of a community working together to build housing on local authority land and he was very much part and parcel of that. As Deputy Breathnach said, it is about working together. I agree with him on this issue. We need to work together a lot more in local government in the spirit of Tom Bellew and people like him I think the builder's name was Duffy. Someone can correct me if I am wrong. It worked very well.

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Voluntary groups around the country get a builder to build homes at a fixed price. It is time to go back to that approach. We need more people to get involved in building their own homes. We had exemplars of this approach in the past and we have exemplars of it at the moment. I hear different organisations mentioned in this regard. We have enough public land to build in the region of 20,000 homes. Let us sort this out and advertise. Louth County Council, for example, should advertise for people to express an interest. It could offer to take, for example, 10 acres of land, design a house or house type for applicants, fix a price and help them with costs. Far more people would get involved if the local authorities showed the type of leadership they showed in the past.

A Fianna Fáil Government took a very active and progressive step in the past. When I was a councillor, Fianna Fáil ran the council for at least 20 years and Fine Gael did not get a shot at the chairmanship. At that time, the National Building Agency, NBA, did exactly what Deputy Breathnach spoke about, namely, provide services to county councils. Under the agency, many fine houses were built in Drogheda for the council, which decided where the houses would be built and put the land together. The NBA designed and managed the construction of the homes. It was a very effective agency. The advantage was that in smaller counties or local authority areas where councils did not have sufficient staff with the knowledge base and construction skills required, the National Building Agency provided this expertise. This approach worked well and was cost-effective and extremely well managed. We need to go back to that.

I welcome the legislation and the actions of the Ministers for Finance and Housing, Planning and Local Government in providing funding for the housing we so badly need, whether public housing or housing provided through approved housing bodies.

Deputy Breathnach is wrong on one issue. I refer him to the housing list issued on Monday by Louth County Council. While someone living in the larger urban areas such as Drogheda or Dundalk will wait eight years, which is eight years too long, in other parts of the county like Cooley, people do not wait for longer than four years. In rural areas, because the housing list is more confined, there are fewer people looking for a smaller number of homes and they do not wait as long as people in urban areas wait.

Louth County Council is an exemplar in the context of dealing with empty homes, abandoned, derelict and boarded up homes in Drogheda, Dundalk and other places in the county. The director of housing, Mr. Joe McGuinness, put his name on notices that appeared on at least 60 derelict homes in County Louth in the past year. He is using compulsory purchase powers to acquire these homes and place families in them. This approach has been extremely successful. The cost to the council, including legal costs and costs arising when somebody has ownership and can exercise legal rights, is less than €100,000 in each case. We could provide thousands of houses around this country if we bloody well wanted to. People have to do their job. If they are not doing their job, they should get out and councils are not doing their job in many parts of the country. In some cases, they are inefficient and do not want to know.

If one walks along any street of any town in Ireland, as I do regularly in my constituency, one can find empty homes and empty premises over shops. Large numbers of people lived over shops and properties 100 years ago. Town centres were teeming with people. The Government introduced an initiative to encourage developers to carry out an over-the-shop development. I understand it is restricted to fewer than nine units. The developer does not need planning permission but must ensure all units meet fire regulations because fire safety is obviously critical, particularly in older structures. This is not happening quickly enough. The Minister with responsibility for housing cannot and does not build houses but creates the appropriate conditions and provides finance and political direction. Councils must be more committed and driven and must be made to account publicly every quarter in respect of statistical changes and proactively using the law ensure premises are occupied. This does not mean taking a negative approach. It means ringing shop owners to tell them their premises could be occupied at a certain cost. We need much more activity, energy and drive than I see in some places. County Louth has that drive, energy and commitment, as do the Minister and Government. We just need to do more.

I note Deputy Breathnach's comments on people who apply for loans. He said two out of three applicants are not approved for loans. While that may be the case, it is all the more reason for councils to get involved to see whether we can do better and to engage and support families and people in that position. The interest rates being offered on loans are relatively low, perhaps 2% or 2.25% over 20 or 25 years. It is a very good proposition but we need to do more to drive it. We must also consider the experience in other places. The empty homes strategy is working in County Louth. Those who are not aware of it should examine it.

Some excellent voluntary bodies and professionals have argued that council tenants should no longer be able to buy council houses. I reject that utterly. That a family could live in a house for 40 long years, rear and educate children and do what they can for them only to have a solicitor or big council man come along and tell them to bugger off and nobody else in the house will be able to live in it and it must go to somebody else is an appalling vista. I reject it utterly. It is wrong, unfair and anti-family. This is a right people have and it passes from generation to generation in my town. These are family homes for which families have paid over and over again and to which they are entitled.

I agree that rents must be seen to be fair and must be proportionate but in many cases the houses were built 20 or 30 years ago. The cost of these houses has been more than paid for. To say that a rent will be set based on the value of the house today as opposed to the day on which it was constructed is also wrong. We must show more respect for people in council houses and acknowledge the work many families do. The communities I know best are in local authority or public housing estates which people feel very privileged to live in and where they are happy in their homes. They look after these houses so well because they are their homes for which they have paid. I feel very strongly about that. I do not approve of this proposal from these wonderful bodies who do excellent work and I will not and cannot support it.

It is vital that we have this debate. The progress we are making in County Louth and east Meath is clear. I visited an estate about two years ago during the election when there were about 20 houses in it. When I visited it again this week more than 250 houses had been completed. A significant number of starts are being made.

There are very significant construction projects under way and they are working. It is wrong to say houses are not being built because they are. It is wrong to say progress is not being made because it very definitely is. It is wrong to say the funding has not been provided because it has been. It is wrong to say people cannot get loans because they can. It is wrong to say land is not available because it is. It is wrong to say no access is being provided by the Government to land that is landlocked because it is, and more than €200 million has been given to open up lands which would not otherwise be available.

While it is constituency business, where a town like Drogheda has been designated a regional growth centre, we need to look again at the infrastructure for the significant increase in jobs and housing that is on its way. We must plan for roads like the northern cross route, which is badly needed. I see Deputy Breathnach smiling at me. I want him to support it as well, by the way.

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