Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent) | Oireachtas source

Perhaps I might deal with the questions that came up the other night when a lot of questions were asked. I will then deal with Deputy Healy-Rae's questions.

First, I thank Deputies who have made thoughtful contributions to the debate on this amendment. I have already explained why I cannot accept Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice's proposed change to amendment No. 22, but I acknowledge the concerns which led him to propose it which were echoed by Deputy Catherine Murphy a few minutes ago. In responding to Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice I also explained what was being done to reduce waiting times for driving tests. I am happy to be able to provide an update on those measures and confirm that my Department and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform have approved the hiring on a phased basis of an additional 67 driving testers. This will appreciably increase the capacity to reduce waiting times for tests. I accept what Deputies Michael Fitzmaurice and Catherine Murphy and others have said about the waiting times. They are far too long, but that does not mean that the amendment I am suggesting is wrong. It is about saving lives. The Road Safety Authority is taking measures to address the issue. It may not be happening at a satisfactory speed, but to allow people who are not qualified on the road is not the solution. The solution is to enable them to become qualified more quickly.

On the test result, Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice suggested it was just a piece of paper, that the person was just as good a driver two days before the test as he or she was two days afterwards. I am sure that is true. Moreover, if a person is a bad driver two days before the driving test, he or she remains a bad driver two days after he or she fails it. The point is we cannot know until after a person takes the driving test. Would Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice get on a aeroplane if he was told that the pilot was not qualified but would take the test in two days? Would he go undergo surgery if he was told the surgeon was not qualified but would be soon? We cannot take this risk with people's lives, which is why we require a learner driver to be accompanied by a qualified driver.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae said I was making an assumption that an accident involving an unaccompanied driver would not have happened if he or she had been accompanied by a qualified driver. I am not making assumptions. The tragic fact is that of 24 learner drivers killed on the roads during 2016 and 2017, 20 had been unaccompanied. That is proof, if anyone needs it, that unaccompanied learner drivers are a danger to themselves, to say nothing about being a danger to other road users.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan made a good suggestion. I am happy to be able to tell him that the RSA is working to that end. Action 8 in the mid-term evaluation of the road safety strategy requires it to, "Develop a business case to support the inclusion of compulsory road safety education in the curriculum for secondary schools". It is working towards this goal, which has a target completion date of the fourth quarter of 2018. The RSA is developing the business case. It will assess whether there is international evidence to support the measure and, if there is such, whether it demonstrates effectiveness in changing attitudes and behaviours towards road safety. The RSA will prepare and present the business case to the Department of Education and Skills for its consideration.

The RSA has two road safety programmes available for teachers to be delivered in secondary schools. The Streetwise resource is aimed at those in junior cycle, while "Your road to safety" is targeted at transition year students. The RSA is updating the transition year programme which it will launch in September in the new virtual learning environment. In addition, it offers a three-year road safety course, Road Safety Matters, which is available for implementation. To complement these teacher-led resources, the RSA's national road safety education service staff visit secondary schools to deliver road safety education to students. It also has an interactive mobile education unit with a roll-over simulator, the Shuttle, targeted at secondary schools during the academic year.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae asked me to use my power to ensure local authorities cut hedges. I appreciate the Deputy's faith in ministerial powers but I am afraid I do not actually have the power to tell local authorities what to do. Perhaps if the hedges in Kerry need trimming he might know someone with influence in Kerry County Council.

Deputy Broughan, whose support for the Bill and the amendment are very much appreciated, raised the issue of consolidation of the Road Traffic Acts and I agree with him. This legislation goes back to 1961. It has been amended numerous times and is in need of consolidation. However, this does not infer that the legislation is in some way faulty or that cases are being lost due to the absence of consolidation. The difficulty is that it is not simply a matter of restating all of the road traffic legislation currently in force in one Bill. We would need to examine each aspect of the Road Traffic Acts to see whether it is in need of updating. If we did not do so, we would soon find ourselves amending our consolidated Act in a whole host of ways and we would very quickly be back where we started with annual Bills to update the legislation.

A fair estimate, and I agree there is a need for this, would be that to do the project properly would take three years. Deputy Broughan suggested the Law Reform Commission, LRC, could take on the project. That is certainly a possibility. I point out that the LRC undertakes projects either on the basis of multi-annual programmes, which must be approved by the Government, or at the request of the Attorney General. As the LRC is currently engaged in a work programme, the most obvious route to asking it to consider consolidation of the Road Traffic Acts would be through a request of the Attorney General. If this route were to be considered it would probably mean shelving other work planned or under way at the LRC.

Deputy Catherine Murphy probably restricted her contribution in the interests of facilitating the early passage of the Bill. I hope her wishes will be adhered to. Her point was that we must separate two issues here, one being the shortage of driver testers and the other being the issue of learner drivers on the road unaccompanied, to which I am determined to put an end.

What I propose in amendment No. 22 is a logical step to improving enforcement of the law against unaccompanied learner drivers. I know this would cause hardship, but unaccompanied learner drivers are breaking the law and are a danger if they are driving unqualified. We have to put an end to the scourge of road deaths. The Deputies in the corner will be aware that, very sadly, the number of road deaths has increased this year. It is up by two compared with this day last year. I am sure the Deputies share our enthusiasm, energy and determination to keep the number of road deaths down, and we are absolutely determined to get the figure down. If this involves hardship for some people, such as learners who drive unaccompanied or those who have had too much to drink, I am sorry but it is a price they will have to pay to save other people's lives. What I propose in amendment No. 22 is this logical step to improving enforcement of the law against these people. It would allow gardaí to detain a vehicle driven by an unaccompanied learner driver, as they can already detain a vehicle where there is no tax, insurance or national car test certificate, or where they have reason to believe the driver is too young to have even a learner permit or is disqualified. It will provide a very valuable tool to gardaí in dealing with unaccompanied learner drivers. The very fact it has aroused such passionate opposition from some is a testament to what a significant deterrent it may be.

I want to respond to Deputy Danny Healy-Rae's questions. His first question was about people being left by the side of the road in County Kerry. Gardaí already detain vehicles with no NCT, tax or insurance. They do not abandon people by the roadside in those cases and they will not do so in this case. He said people should get one chance. I could be sympathetic with this in certain cases, but I could not possibly be sympathetic with it in the case of people being in charge of a lethal weapon which they are not qualified to drive. We cannot give people one chance to cause collisions or fatal accidents when they are not qualified to drive. What we do is give them a driving test. This amendment tackles the problem. It addresses the problem and put a finger on it. I do not for one moment dispute that. Deputy Fitzmaurice is right, but he is absolutely wrong about the solution. His suggestion would not be solution. If we were to do what he proposes, there would almost certainly be more and not fewer road deaths, and I do not think anybody disputes that.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae also asked whether gardaí do not have enough to do without addressing this. He is right; gardaí are overextended and enforcement is a problem. We have put our finger on this problem time and again. We need more gardaí, but they are coming. This problem is being addressed. We also need good laws. The solution to difficulties with enforcing all of our laws is to provide more gardaí and not for one moment to allow bad laws to continue to exist. To answer the Deputy's question as to when the Bill will be passed, I hope it will be passed very soon and I appeal to him and everybody else to facilitate its passage because it will save lives.

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