Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I agree with Deputy Ryan. The approach that is being proposed undermines the political system and the legislative system. We have gone through the tortuous process of trying to put together a commission that will be responsible for advising the Government. At the same time, we are saying the commission should not have anything to do with certain appointments because they are too important. I did not hear anything from the Minister to explain why this inconsistency is being included in the legislation. It has not been explained why a separate process, not involving the proposed judicial appointments commission, needs to be put in place for these three judicial appointments.

I want to deal with the point made by Deputy Ó Laoghaire. He has said that many jurisdictions around the world have provided in these circumstances for a lay majority of people who are not judges or members of the legal profession. I ask him to identify those jurisdictions. I have no doubt that Deputy Ó Laoghaire is as aware as I am of the position in the North. The Northern Ireland criminal justice review, which followed from the Good Friday Agreement, adjudicated on the importance of how judges should be appointed in Northern Ireland. It proposed the establishment of what became the Northern Ireland Judicial Appointments Commission. I do not know whether Sinn Féin participated in the review, which decided that the chair of the appointments commission should be the Lord Chief Justice, who is the most senior judge in Northern Ireland. It also decided that there should be five judges on that appointments commission, as well as two members of the legal profession and five lay members. Not even our neighbouring jurisdiction above the Border has a lay majority, and neither is there a lay majority in England and Wales or in Scotland. I have not gone further afield. If Deputy Ó Laoghaire says there are other jurisdictions with a lay majority, I would like to hear about them, maybe not now but some other time.

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