Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I disagree with almost everything that Deputy O'Callaghan said except for the point about inconsistency. I do not see any reason to support the amendment but I do not agree with Deputy O'Callaghan that the commission creates problems in terms of the quality of the people that will be appointed. Some of the commentary around lay members of the commission is unhelpful and ignores the reality of the high threshold that the lay appointees will have to reach. These are people who will have significant experience in many areas of the administration of justice, law and various related areas and will have an interest in a variety of areas. It is right and proper that there be lay people on the commission and that there be a lay majority. This is something that exists in other jurisdictions and the sky has not fallen in by any manner or means. It is the case that there are lay chairpersons in several jurisdictions and I have no problem with that. I do not believe that it causes any of the difficulties to which Deputy O'Callaghan adverted. However, I agree with him that amendment No. 87 is inconsistent. I do not see the sense in establishing a commission of this nature, having gone through a lengthy legislative process and debated the arguments in support of such a commission, which included independence, transparency of process and a broad representation of society and then not allowing that commission to be involved in the appointment of people to the most senior judicial roles.

I believe it is inconsistent. I find it difficult to understand how the Government has come to this conclusion. The Minister has made the point that some of the people in these positions will be on the commission. Surely there are other ways of dealing with that, for example, by requiring them to absent themselves. I do not believe the solution should involve confining the process to such a small group of people who, contrary to the spirit of everything else in the legislation, are not representative of the broad range of experiences and attitudes with regard to the law that exist across society as a whole. I do not believe I can support this amendment at present. The measures in the Bill as it stands make more sense. We are going to significant lengths to establish a commission. I think we should trust it and allow it to do its job. That applies to the superior courts and the superior positions as well.

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