Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity) | Oireachtas source

I will respond to Deputy Michael Collins. Like Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett, I accept that there are areas where the issue of the baptism barrier does not apply, has not been applied and not created a problem in gaining access to schools. I also ask Deputy Michael Collins to accept that there are areas where it has happened. This is real. It is not a made up problem. The Government would not be moving to do something about it if it was. I have met multiple parents who had a real difficulty in getting their kids into school. I remember meeting one man - a Hindu - who had rung a school and been asked if he would think about baptising his child to get him into the Catholic school. It is appalling that anything like that would happen. There is a real problem.

A broader point was raised by Deputy Thomas Byrne. I do not agree with him that the problem is not religious schools but the preponderance of religious schools. I agree that the preponderance of Catholic schools, at over 90%, exacerbates the problem massively and makes it huge, but there is a more fundamental problem in having publicly funded schools - they may be privately owned but they would not exist without public funding for teachers - promoting religion. That is a problem. The consequence is the knock-on effects, with students being pressured to attend religious classes or feeling excluded as a result of not being part of them.

I thought Deputy Róisín Shortall was correct to say the Government's approach was a sticking plaster which just would not work. It will not deal with these problems. It will just create others. The only way to deal with it is not to deal with the flip-end of the constitutional right of the student not to be forced to attend classes in religious instruction but to deal with it in an holistic way and start with a publicly run, publicly funded education system that does not include the promotion of religion. That can take place outside school hours, be it privately funded, etc. That is the way to deal with the issue. I am for debate and discussion with stakeholders and such, but do not think we will find a solution other than that one.

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