John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I genuinely believe it. I believe we are establishing the commission on fundamentally the wrong grounds, that is, to satisfy the desire of the Minister, Deputy Ross, to have a commission of this scale. I have listened to many people debate this and to a lot of the discussion both in the House today and previously. Nobody has put forward a compelling reason we would need such a large commission to make recommendations to a Minister on the appointments. We are talking of the appointment of maybe eight or ten people in any given year. It is not as though this is a significant piece of work where the commission will divvy it up among different groups. I was astounded at this.

If I am not mistaken, the Government has indicated the cost of establishing and running this commission is some €1 million. I find it very ironic because the Minister, Deputy Ross, who is not here this evening has made a virtue out of closing down quangos, making efficiencies, better government and so forth. This flies in the face of everything the man has ever said. I am sorry he is not here to hear it. As I said, I would not ordinarily come in to say this, but I am furious with him. As a House, we are being made a laughing stock of when we should be establishing a commission. I understand why there is a desire to have a judicial appointments commission and I understand the role of that commission, but I am absolutely of the view that a 17-person commission is grossly inefficient and will in no way enhance the delivery of these recommendations.

To follow on from a point made by Deputy Ó Snodaigh, I understand the commission as proposed by Deputy O'Callaghan would have a mix of members, including four lay members. It is important not to confuse this and say it is all professionals. Obviously, when establishing a commission, one wants a mix of skills. One would need those who understand the law but also those outside the law. That is the essence of Deputy O'Callaghan's submission on the establishment of this commission.

I am sorry the Minister, Deputy Ross, is not here. The figure of €1 million has come back to me in response to parliamentary questions I have asked. People might say it is well worth it for the number of appointments we are going to make but it is costing us €100,000 to €150,000 per appointment, if the figures we are given are correct, and that sounds outrageous. The Minister, Deputy Ring, was recently in the House and I asked him questions about funding for RAPID projects in my area, only to be informed the total budget for RAPID-funded projects in the whole country is some €1 million, or €64,000 per local authority area. There are real and tangible things that can be done with the money. While it sounds a small amount, I find it an appalling vista that we are talking about a commission of this nature to appoint maybe eight or ten judges per annum, with a budget of €1 million and with 17 people involved. We could not have made it any more complicated. I do not believe the quality of the decision making and the quality of the recommendations from such an unwieldy commission will deliver better results. If anything, it will be more complicated and will probably not deliver what we want. I implore Members to look at this again and to let common sense prevail.

We have all sat on committees. I heard Deputy Ó Snodaigh talk about the number of members on the committee established recently to deal with Seanad reform. We have all sat on committees with those big numbers and we know they are not the most efficient way of doing business. We understand why they have come into being, given the political make-up of this House and the various parties, but it does not mean it is the most efficient way of doing business. If we were starting with a blank sheet of paper, we would not establish a committee with 17 people. Deputy Ó Snodaigh clearly indicated he felt the Seanad reform committee is too big and too unwieldy, but he has explained why it is there, and I agree with him. However, the judicial appointments commission does not have to be as large as that. There is nothing compelling us to do this. We can still have the mix of lay people and those from a legal background, but with a smaller and more efficient number and a smaller budget that is more appropriate to making the eight or ten appointments that are required this year.

The Minister, Deputy Flanagan, is snookered. He is here with something that I know, hand on heart, he does not fully believe in. I honestly believe he is here tonight with the pet project of the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport and he has to get it over the line, come what may. That is an appalling vista. It is unfair to the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, and his colleagues in Fine Gael and it is unfair to the Members of this House to be put in that position. None of us believes it is the best way forward.

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