Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am not saying I am always in order. I would never say that. I can be out of order as well as anyone else. I am only an ordinary Teachta Dála here. I am just wondering in my own brain what the difference is between money laundering in Europe and money laundering when an entity gets money from George Soros or somebody else and does not give it back. It is illegal. What is the difference? Surely we can conflate the two, or are we all to be silenced but not by the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I note? Are we to be blind to this? The Leas-Cheann Comhairle has to report to SIPO and I have to report to SIPO, and rightly so. Yet some people are above the law. They blatantly say that they will not give the money back. Government Ministers are accompanying them while they canvas. That is my point. People watching are confused. We are talking about implementing legislation here, but we have dirt on our own shoes, and we will not clean it. We sweep it under the carpet and leave it there.

The member states are obliged to keep public records and have them available. When the legislation, which I totally agree with, has passed at the request of the European Parliament, and under threat from it, how long will it take to implement? When will we have an evaluation of the impact of the legislation and whether it is working? This is another worry I have, about many pieces of legislation. I am concerned about how long it takes to transpose them into law and have them enacted. There must then be an impact assessment to see how they are bedding in. Are they having the desired effect? Are these vagabonds, rogues and terrorists being taken off the roads? Are their money supplies being cut off? They may be white collar, blue collar or any collar, or many with no collars.

The risk-based approach is intended to avoid a one-size-fits-all approach, which often fails to address or resolve challenges posed by changes in technology, economic activity or patterns of crime. Technology is the one we really have to grapple with, and I certainly have to grapple with it. It is changing literally by the hour. With Google and Facebook we see how the tap can be turned off regarding interference in a referendum in this country. That is what has happened, but people do not all depend on technology, thank God. They know when something wrong is happening. There is a huge issue around economic activity and the patterns of crime. I often wonder if the fraud squad and other Interpol agencies are up to speed at all. I am not criticising them, I am just saying that they need to be ever-evolving, ever-changing and always trying to get ahead of the game, because these terrorists and criminals have all day and all night to plan, plot and design Ponzi schemes. The movement of money by electronic transfer is very hard to supervise. The Bill provides for amendments to the Criminal Justice (Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing) Act 2010, which is the principal legislation dealing with the subject. We have had some debates on this in recent times. Measures required under the fourth directive are provided for in the Bill. Deputy O'Callaghan and others have said that they are supporting it. I am supporting it. However, we want to see robust legislation and an impact assessment of the legislation very soon after its enactment.

We should not have to read articles like the one in The Irish Timesreporting that the European Commission has begun infringement proceedings against Ireland for failing to implement, on time, a directive which aims to clamp down on money laundering activities and terrorist financing. We must get our priorities right, put our money where our mouths are and insist that legislation be passed in time. I acknowledge that the Minister is a busy man and that he has many things to do in his Department. However, legislation of this sort should be a top priority. It should be brought before the House as swiftly as possible and more time should allocated for debate.

The timeline relating to the Bill before the House is now very tight. I am a member of the Business Committee, which sat this morning to determine the business for the next number of weeks. We struggle constantly to allocate time for legislation to be debated. When we have five or six weeks to pass all Stages of a Bill, due diligence may not be possible. There may not be time to research and propose amendments. There is a need to support Members in that regard. We must act on these directives when we get them. When the Minister says at the Council that we are going to do something, the process should start the next day to give us enough time to examine the proposal properly, debate it fully, tease out amendments on Committee Stage and pass it. The clock is against us. I do not know about the Minister but many of his colleagues are busy and have other things on their minds. The eye is off the ball, clearly. We see what is going on in the HSE and the lack of accountability in that context. It is time that we started to represent those who elected us to do the job we have been asked to do and implement legislation when asked by Europe rather than to have it threaten us with infringement penalties. We will be cleaned out as a result of all the infringement penalties threatened in respect of a plethora of legislative proposals. Anything to do with controlling and turning off the finance and lifeblood of terrorist organisations should be a top priority.

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