Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

While I do not have any problem with the Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, I regret that the Minister for Social Protection herself is not here. That said, what we want to bear in mind here is that the workers in Irish Life, or GWL, as it is now called, are watching this debate because they face the prospect of huge cuts to their pensions. What the Minister of State says is not correct strictly speaking. Of course the pensions of people already in receipt of them are secure but the pensions of future pensioners, namely, those still working for the company who have yet to retire, will not be secure because of the change from defined benefits to defined contributions. The financial impact has been carefully worked out.

The Minister of State says there is new legislation that does not allow people to walk away at short notice but the point is that it allows them to walk away. It allows them to walk away if they give 12 months' notice, which is not much good to the pensioners in Irish Life or any other group.

The people affected are facing an appalling vista. Not only are they facing the loss of more than one third of the pension they were led to expect and for which they have paid but, because of their being transferred to a defined contribution system, they are also facing the possible loss of their entire pension at some time in the future. As I stated, it depends on the vagaries of the market. We are all too well aware of those.

The Minister of State cannot tell me that the legislation, despite its being Government legislation, will be in place by 30 June. It is hoped that the legislation will be enacted by the summer recess. To the best of my knowledge, the summer recess will not be until some time in July. All that was expressed was a hope.

I spoke to representatives of the trade union representing the affected people today. They are most anxious to meet the Minister, Deputy Regina Doherty, so they can explain their position to her face to face and explain what exactly is involved. I urge the Minister of State earnestly to ask his colleague, bearing in mind that there has been a request for some time for a meeting, to meet the people face to face. We are talking about real people and people losing a substantial chunk of the money they were expected to receive on retirement. It is a very real problem.

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