Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am aware of that and thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

I support the amendment which reads: "In page 17, lines 8 and 9, to delete “offered, given or agreed to be given, accepted, obtained or agreed to be accepted” and substitute “accepted or obtained”. The Minister might think this is semantics and that I am playing with language and grammar, on which Teachta Jim O'Callaghan advised me a while ago, but it is very important that the wording be as tight and also as loose as possible to incorporate all of the aforesaid activities. On a few occasions it was certainly put in my way that if I were to do such a thing, I would be looked after. We have to stamp out that activity completely. There is no place for it in any modern democracy. The amendment is, therefore, necessary. I know that the legal advice was to change the longer wording to "accepted or obtained", but the problem with the high fliers involved in white collar crime or crime of this nature is they have the resources and the wherewithal to wheel in Deputy Jim O'Callaghan or one of his colleagues and send him to the building by the river where the matter can be held up forever.

We saw what happened with the collapse of the economy, the banking inquiry and the court cases and the way they collapsed. This needs to be very tight and very stringent, with no tolerance for it. As Deputy Michael Healy Rae said, it was only cúpla daoine, a small number of people who tarnished the reputation of the whole. It is fairly widespread in our economy and our country. The examples have been given here, including the scandal that we are dealing with at the moment. It is not corruption per sebut it is a form of it in that there is no accountability. I just watched the "Six One News" and heard a certain gentleman refuse point blank to consider stepping aside when people have died. Many people have died and more people face death sentences. Why would corruption not be out there and be practised when people see that kind of disdain for democracy? We were here last week demanding that a Minister resign because he spoke to someone on the telephone but there is no demand for the resignation of the Minister who is championing and presiding over this horrible debacle involving cruelty and the suffering of so many women and their families, not to mention the dead women and their children and families. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle might think I am straying from the matter before us but I am not. This is all giving the impression that certain people in the Government are untouchable and we have no way of getting them to resign. I called twice last night and twice today for the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, to resign. He is in charge and the buck must stop somewhere. It stops with him at Government level and with the CEO of the HSE. They have to resign because it is just not good enough. In the context of this Bill, what kind of message are we sending to young people? Surely there must be some follow through, some bit of accountability and some engagement with the democratic process. If things like this happen, there must be accountability.

I have dealt with a lot of families who have been in terrible turmoil. Only yesterday a family received no protection from the courts and their house was repossessed by the law agents of this State, An Garda Síochána on behalf of KBC bank. Deputies Michael Healy Rae and Michael Collins and myself made representations that to bank six weeks ago but have not even had the dignity of an acknowledgement from the CEO who we requested to meet peacefully. We wrote several letters to that bank. When one compares one with the other, we need a lot of the words in this amendment, including "accepted or obtained". A lot of things were accepted and a lot of things were obtained during the so-called boom that destroyed our country. One thinks of the greed, giving, taking, obtaining, bullying, misuse and abuse of people.

In the final analysis, the right to homes Bill that we tried to bring in here did not get through and that is important in the context of what we are talking about with this subject. It is a murky subject. A former colleague and former Member of this House served time in prison on a charge of blackmail. He served his time and suffered the penalties of the law and had redress to court. It is important that it be for everyone. We cannot victimise politicians or others; it must be for everyone, without fear or favour. We cannot allow squeaky lines or, as with the banking inquiry, the shredding of files, of which the Minister is aware. Necessary files were shredded in the DPP's office in the middle of court cases and the cases collapsed. That is widely known but it is okay because they are the elite, for whom we are all paying. Our children, our children's children and our grandchildren's children will be paying back the debts to our so-called friends in Europe and the IMF.

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