Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Here we go again - Magdalen laundries, hepatitis C, Brigid McCole, Susie Long, Rebecca O'Malley, a neighbour of mine, Amanda Mellet, who I brought to meet the Minister, and now Vicky Phelan. We have a real problem in this country protecting women's health. This issue is on the Minister's watch. He needs to do the right thing. I join with thanking Vicky for her openness and for the way she has put herself in the public spotlight. I am sure she is watching me speak now and is listening to all of us. She has put herself in a very difficult situation out in the open and she is doing it for the betterment of women across Ireland. We need to stand with her and deal with this issue on her behalf because of the bravery she has shown.

The most important thing we need to deal with is the 208 affected women. They need our protection and support, our endeavours and a health system that will support them. Of the 208, 46 have been told, two of whom have passed away, and 162 are in the process of being told, 15 of whom have unfortunately passed away. We need to deal with the bombshell the Minister has just landed tonight, which I was not prepared for. We need to know the number of cases that have not been audited. The Minister has not told us in his speech. It is a bombshell. What number of women have not had their cases audited? Are they recent? Here is the real issue. If they are not recent, what was the basis for not selecting them in the first place from the national cancer register? We will be having questions later, but these are fairly obvious questions and worrying times. This is a very live issue for the people and the women of Ireland. I hope the Minister will be able to answer that in detail because it is concerning. If the Minister has that detail, he has not given it to the House. The shake of his head indicates he does not have it. We cannot get near the detail of this without that information.

We all have a duty to ensure there is public confidence in the screening process for cervical cancer and in the other screening processes. It is a duty we should all honour. The screening process along with the HPV vaccine, which our party has pushed, are essential to prevent women getting cancers throughout their lives. We all have a duty to ensure that confidence is maintained in these.

I met with officials from the Minister's Department for an hour and 20 minutes recently. What did his Department know about the issue? What did it know about similar cases? I accept what the Minister is saying, that he did not find out until 16 April. Was no human being in the Department of Health aware of this case or any similar case or issue preceding that? It is an answer the Minister will have to give. The words that jump out of the memo are: "The SCA is of the view that publicity around the case ... is likely." I do not think this memo would have ever seen the light of day only for the potential publicity that would surround it which we all know now is causing serious issues and worry for women across Ireland. It says a lot to me about the Department of Health. It says a lot to me about the political culture. It says a lot to me about the way in which we administer health in the country that this note was justified on the basis of the potential publicity.

The NCCP has an awful lot of questions to answer. In the briefing note, it says that they do not consider this to be a patient safety incident, which it is not credible. It is not acceptable and it is deeply worrying. That it would put in the memo to Government is far more worrying than the clinical director resigning. I took the trouble this evening to look up the governance of CervicalCheck. We all know about the resignation of the clinical director. She reported to the head of screening, an assistant national director. What is his role in this? Where is the accountability? The people are sick to their back teeth of the lack of accountability. He reports to the national director of the national cancer control programme. What was his role in this and did he have knowledge of it?

Who reports to the recently appointed chief clinical officer who reports to the director general who we now know found out from RTÉ? Does it not say a lot that the Minister knew about this issue before the director general of the HSE did? There has to be accountability for all of the layers. I know that this lady resigned after the Minister had expressed no confidence, but does he have confidence in the structure, in the people in it, or was it just because of weak media performances somebody had to be chosen to go under a bus?

The investigation cannot be led by HIQA. With respect, I completely disagree with Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly. If the Minister goes down this route, he will end up with a commission of investigation. This is a national scandal and, for many reasons, HIQA is not the organisation to carry out the investigation. It has powers to investigate, take documents, go into organisations and seize computers, etc. but under the legislation, it only has limited powers to do so in certain circumstances. It has no powers whatsoever to compel the attendance of witnesses, direct a witness to answer questions or take sworn evidence. Witnesses are given no immunity in giving their evidence. Given what we now know about medical candour and the profession, does the Minister honestly think that unless the witnesses have to do so, they will give all of the information needed? HIQA will not have the capacity to cross-examine personnel, which will mean that in many cases the evidence given will not be able to used in the making of findings. I guarantee, for all of these reasons, that if the Minister, with Fianna Fáil, pushes this through, we will be back in this House looking for a commission of inquiry because the public will demand it. I ask the Minister to, please, listen to me, measure this appropriately and do the right thing because we will soon be back debating this issue. HIQA does not have the powers to deliver. I do not believe it even has the capacity or the resources to do so, even it is the right authority. The Minister needs to change his mind in that regard.

We need to act quickly. General practitioners, GPs, have not been given guidance on what to tell people. We need to ensure the women of Ireland know where to go with their concerns and that when they go to GPs or other medical professionals, there will be a structure in place such that their concerns will be addressed. We also need a guarantee that resources will be available to deal with far more inquiries which will be needed and that all those being screened will have their problems addressed, too. The Minister needs to give a guarantee to the House that all of this is in place and that everyone will have the information they require.

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