Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am pleased to speak on this issue. I read the Minister of State's speech, as I was not present when he contributed. It states that we have been experimenting with public private partnerships for a long time, certainly longer than I had thought. I was an advocate for public private partnerships at one time. However, the jury is out on them. We also have many design, build and operate contracts, including in County Tipperary, for water infrastructure, sewage treatment plants and many other public services. I have questions about that approach. Yesterday, at a committee meeting with Uisce Éireann, I raised a major contamination of a water source in the River Anner at Mullinahone, County Tipperary, the birthplace of Charles J. Kickham. The scheme was built under a design, build and operate contract. I received reports that the company operating the scheme handed it back, having maintained the plant in pristine condition for the duration of the contract, and the contamination was not spotted on time. This resulted in significant costs, upset and upheaval for consumers and is a matter of concern. Who is monitoring the scheme for flaws? Irish Water and Tipperary County Council deserve praise for their diligence and hard work in trying to get the scheme back into operation. The Health Service Executive was also involved.

Public private partnerships operate to deliver projects. I note €1.2 billion was spent on these partnerships during the crisis that followed the crash. There were many fancy sod turning ceremonies, engagements and brochures associated with them and I supported this approach, because I believed public private partnerships offered a way to fast-track the delivery of some badly-needed projects. People had waited for years for some projects. The Burncourt and Fethard water scheme, for example, was 50 years in gestation before it was officially opened last year by the Minister of State, Deputy English. People were drinking bad water for a long time. Once the project was completed and the scheme opened, we thought everything had been rectified.

Deputy Wallace referred to a number of issues associated with public private partnerships. We have a problem with a bundle of schools at the moment. Not a week passes that I am not contacted by people from different counties who have been caught out by these partnerships. The subcontractor is the last man to be paid. Subcontractors must buy materials, run vans, pay for insurance, obtain health and safety statements and ensure all employees have safe passes. They are badly stung when a contractor collapses. Deputy Wallace mentioned Carillion which, as far as I am concerned, was recklessly trading. God knows we have too many agencies but someone in one of the agencies or elsewhere in government must be monitoring the billions that are being invested in public private partnerships.

How are these private companies trading and what are their financial returns? Deputy Wallace cited the financial returns of some of them and they were extraordinary. Somebody must keep an eye on these projects because when one of them is not delivered, the consequences are felt by the ordinary subcontractor, whether a self-employed individual or a small company with five or six employees. These companies are the backbone of the country because no project can be delivered without them.

The closure of a large company has knock-on effects. The collapse of Carillion resulted in the closure of Sammon, which delayed the school projects and left behind a mess. The smaller guys, those who do the second and first fixes and finish the tarmac, electrical and plumbing work, are caught time and again when this happens.

In 2008, I attended a meeting at a hotel in Dublin called after a company, whose name I cannot recall, went bust. There were 600 subcontractors involved and 500 of them attended the meeting. We fought hard on this issue, raising it in the House every second day to try to get the Government to enact the Construction Contracts Bill. The legislation was eventually passed but, as Deputy Wallace correctly pointed out, while it is fine to pass legislation, the issue is implementing it. We do not examine the impact of legislation either. It is not rural-proofed and in this case it was not proofed on behalf of subcontractors to find out what would be the knock-on effects if a project were to go belly up. Such cases have resulted in suicides and caused severe distress for the wives and families of subcontractors, who come under financial pressure from the banks which show no mercy. The people who feel the pressure are subcontractors in local communities employing local staff who they do not want to leave unpaid. However, one cannot get blood from a stone and if the subcontractor is not paid, he cannot pay anyone else. Who is monitoring this?

Deputy Wallace referred also to the record of these companies when it comes to paying within 60 days. It can be 120 or 130 days. One does the work in good faith and in the hope of getting paid and one's hand is in the dog's mouth. That dog can bite and he can bark and he can bite worse than he barks. One is caught then and in a cycle of trying to keep employees on the books and paying suppliers for materials while the big companies hold one to ransom.

I saw the evaluation of public private partnerships by the Government. Who carries out that evaluation? We need people with expertise and people who have been affected within these review groups. We need people from industry to have an input. While the CIF will be involved, it does not represent the small self-employed person in any shape or form. It is interested in big business. Who is looking after this and how are the people on the ground who have been hurt the most being represented? They are providing three to six jobs in villages or rural areas and the equipment and vans to do the work. They need an NCT and certificates and they have to deal with more and more regulation. It is not funny. We must examine this seriously, including the situation with Sammon and the school projects. Behind those school projects and the delay in their delivery is the anguish and trauma of subcontractors, their wives and families. They have to put food on the table. They have to pay their employees and their taxes, in regard to which they get no mercy from Revenue. They are subject to savage penalties and interest from Revenue if they are late because they cannot get paid. They have to pay their VAT every month. Many of them pay their PRSI every week but there is no compassion, understanding or empathy. The big companies can get away with whatever they like. They collapse, go into receivership and one sees them back operating within a short period.

We have to question public private partnerships in relation to tolling and other lucrative contracts where deals have been done. They are very flimsy and not good for the taxpayer. Who is in charge here? No one is and these contracts roll along. None of the public servants advising the Ministers has ever worked in this industry. They do not understand it or have any empathy in respect of it. That is the problem. The CIF is too close to Government and pally with the big lads. No one is looking after the daoine beag, the little people, who are the enablers and providers who get up early in the morning, to use the phrase of certain Deputies, and stay out working late at night. We must give those people some semblance of respect and revisit the Construction Contracts Act which is clearly not working. There should be a review date after 12 months at least in respect of all legislation we pass here to determine how it is bedding down and whether it is having the desired impact or a negative one. We do not do so however. We may take years to pass a Bill, as with the construction contracts legislation, but once it is implemented, we forget about it. It was not even commenced for a long time, albeit it is now. How is it bedding down?

NERA is walking into businesses around the country to check the entitlements of staff, which is fine. However, we need a new body or to change NERA into a support unit to assist small, self-employed operators. They are very busy people and they do not have the expertise to deal with all this paperwork and regulations. They are able to do their jobs very well and they employ people and create an economy in their local areas, but they are often not into the legislative aspects of it or the engagement with health and safety and the plethora of other regulations. They need to be helped but above all they need protection from these large conglomerates which have public private partnership contracts. The work is passed down through sizable companies like Sammon but when the salmon is caught in the river, pardon the pun, numerous small business and tradespeople are impacted. It is just not good enough.

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