Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

As Members are aware, we are debating whether it is appropriate to retain the eighth amendment in the Constitution or, as outlined by the previous speaker, to replace it with a phrase suggesting that this matter be legislated for by the Oireachtas. There has been considerable debate about family, children, mothers, etc. The natural instinct of all of us is to protect life and care for pregnant women. It is the role of all medical professionals who work so hard and whom we trust to do the right thing at all times. Many of those medical professionals appeared before the Joint Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution and gave their evidence. I meet many people who work in the medical area. I certainly have not come across any whose instinct is to try to take life away; they want to bring life into the world. That is what they are there to do and that is what they always want to do.

The eighth amendment is preserving what is called the equal right to life of the mother and the developing embryo in the womb. That is what it provides for. I came to a decision on this matter approximately 18 years ago. My daughter is now 17. I have four children. On our second child, Ava, my wife was very ill, but not critically, and she was in hospital for a large portion of the pregnancy. I came to realise that difficult decisions needed to be made in a minority of cases. Fortunately, we were not in the position where we were the minority within that minority where the really hard decisions have to be made. However, it happens.

I came to realise that having this locked into the Constitution was not appropriate. In that minority of the minority of cases, the eighth amendment has another provision, which is that it creates the equal risk to ill health and possibly even of death of both the unborn and the mother. That is the problem; the equal right to life has a reverse side to it. That is what we are dealing with here; we are dealing with a minority within a minority. We need to be big enough to recognise that sometimes the greater good is to look after that minority. That is really what we are talking about doing here. I understand that people on all sides have very strong views and it is an issue on which there is considerable debate.

Many people, including many speakers this evening, have said we cannot trust the politicians. If something happens to us, however, we have to trust the medical profession. We need to pass this along to the profession in order to allow it to do its job appropriately in that minority of the minority of cases. That is really what this involves. We understand that people sometimes feel they cannot trust politicians. However, they have an option to change them if they cannot trust them. When people think about this issue, they usually talk about things that happened in the past when politicians made all kinds of wrong decisions and shady deals were done. Those decisions were made and deals were done well away from the very intense spotlight there is on this issue.

People heard all the views very clearly during the debates at Joint Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution and came to understand the position. If the eighth amendment is removed from the Constitution - it may not be - we will have the opportunity to come back here and discuss all the issues relating to 12 weeks and the other matters that are difficult for people. We will do it in the open and everyone will understand the positions that people hold. While I could be wrong, I am of the view that the result of this may be much less liberal than people fear. However, we will see. Time will tell.

We need to recognise that what is in the Constitution does not work. It does not work for a very small minority, but that minority are citizens of the State and are absolutely entitled to have their rights upheld. In order to do that, we have to grapple with this very thorny issue. In some places it will be difficult; it is difficult for all of us. Ultimately, we have to deal with it.

All of us in public life meet all kinds of people with various problems. I am sure most of us will have dealt with people who have been traumatised as a result of sexual abuse, rape or incest. That brings trauma to their lives and some of them are incapable of continuing with a pregnancy which may have resulted from that. We have to understand that and deal with it. Others may be well able to deal with that and want to go on and have the baby. Again, we have to understand and respect that, and ensure that they are able to do that safely. It is not something that should be compulsory under any circumstances.

Another issue has been much discussed. I met a woman recently who, along with her husband, had planned to have a child. She had worked for a long time to get pregnant and then, quite early on, discovered there was a huge problem and that the child would not live. This woman did not want to tell her family and friends of her circumstances. She did not want to go through that trauma and she chose to go to England to have an abortion. It was very difficult for her because she came from a devoutly religious family and it went against everything they believed in. However, she was trapped in this place. She felt it was wrong for her and we have to recognise that.

Some of the issues in this debate are difficult. I have heard people talk about being pro-life. I do not know many who are not pro-life. All of us are pro-life. I also hear people saying - I have been accused of it - that some people are pro-abortion. I do not know any who are pro-abortion any more than they are pro-chemotherapy if a person has that terrible disease and they have to try to do something about. In that circumstance we need to deal with this and understand it.

Ireland has changed since 1983. The vast majority of people who become pregnant choose to be pregnant; they want to have babies and want to bring life into the world. In the vast majority of cases, they are successful in doing that. However, we have to have the courage and ability to deal with that minority of the minority. As a result, the people need to be given the choice as to whether they want to remove the eighth amendment from the Constitution and allow, as we are asking them to do, the Oireachtas to decide the circumstances in which we can do that. That will be decided in the full spotlight of the public's view. It will not be done behind closed doors or in a shady corner somewhere. It will be done here - out in the open. People will see and understand why the result will be what it will be. In those circumstances, I firmly believe that people will understand that the right thing is done.

The right thing for us to do now is to put that to the people and let the people decide on the eighth amendment. Then we can come back here, have our debate respectfully, put the issues on the table and move forward.

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