Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I speak in support of a referendum to repeal the eighth amendment and substitute the wording of the amendment, as proposed in the Bill before the House. It is 35 years since the eighth amendment was inserted in the Constitution. During that period, a new generation of Irish people has grown up who did not have an opportunity to vote on an issue that can have a serious effect on their lives. I was proud to introduce, with Deputies Mick Wallace and Clare Daly, the Medical Treatment (Termination of Pregnancy in Case of Risk to Life of Pregnant Woman) Bill six years ago. Speaking last Thursday, Deputy Daly noted that it was strange just how far the conversation on this issue had moved on in the past six years. That is also an extremely positive development on which I believe Deputies Daly, Wallace and I played a small part by bringing the conversation on this issue into the Dáil Chamber. I also believe politicians lag behind the mood of citizens on this issue.

The main reason for change has been the role of people on the streets, including the women and men who marched on International Women's Day last Thursday. They were strong and proud and wanted the eighth amendment repealed. In the past week, I have been canvassing in my constituency and speaking to people who do not necessarily take to the streets to demand change. However, they too are thinking about this issue. I estimate that the level of support for repealing the eighth amendment among those I canvassed was approximately 60%, which is extremely positive.

The eighth amendment has been a complete failure from the point of view of those who advocated it in the early 1980s. From the perspective of those who viewed the amendment as a bulwark against the liberalisation and secularisation of Irish society, it has been a spectacular failure. The majority of those who voted in favour of the eighth amendment in 1983 were concerned that abortion would become widely available and many argued that its rejection would result in the floodgates being opened. From this point of view, it has also been a failure. While the number of legal abortions is low, standing at 27 or 28 per annum, this figure is dwarfed by the 4,000 abortions obtained outside the State every year. This figure refers only to those who give an Irish address. I believe many more Irish women do not give an Irish address when they obtain an abortion abroad. In addition, more than 1,000 women have abortions every year using medication obtained over the Internet.

The eighth amendment has not prevented abortion. Instead, women are forced to travel abroad to access abortions and many are also having abortions here. The rate of abortion among Irish people is similar to the rates recorded in comparable countries. This is accepted and tolerated. The abortion rate will not decline but the health of pregnant mothers is put at risk, as occurred in the tragic case of Savita Halappanavar in Galway. Many other women have also suffered as a result of the eighth amendment.

Modern health care is patient inclusive, meaning that when a problem is diagnosed the patient is often given advice on various options, for example, physiotherapy, medication or surgery.

The pros and cons are explained and if there are risks, they are explained and the patient has an input. For a pregnant woman, this would not apply, as decisions are made by medical practitioners under the chill factor of existing law. The woman would have no say or input.

The fact that women facing a crisis pregnancy are forced to travel outside the State or use medication obtained on the Internet poses certain health risks. Having to travel often means a later termination than would be the case in Scotland, for example, where 70% of terminations take place under nine weeks. The later the procedure, the higher the risk of complications. It would be safest practice for these crisis pregnancies to be dealt with here with all the medical backup, counselling and support needed in such stressful circumstances. It is important to note that today the Liverpool Women's National Health Service Foundation Trust, one of the main hospitals in the UK offering abortion services to women from Ireland with diagnoses of fatal foetal abnormality, has restricted access for terminations to women who are between 16 and 20 weeks pregnant due to staffing issues. The crisis in the NHS in England will affect the crisis in Ireland because women will not be able to access an abortion as early as they want to, even in Britain.

It is certainly not best or safest practice to allow people to obtain medicine over the Internet, not knowing how they are sourced and using them without proper medical supervision, as they may do with an abortion pill. Deputy Mattie McGrath commented on a report he saw in the Irish Independentthat nearly seven in ten of 497 GPs in a closed doctor forum had stated they would not be involved with medical abortions. He goes on to say this was a closed forum and not just anybody phoned up or completed it online, as is the case with other polls. He said the 70% rate was pretty concerning and if the Government did not want to listen to it, to whom would it listen? The Deputy should have read the complete report, which indicated that a survey of almost 500 GPs found that almost two thirds would not provide abortion pills if the eighth amendment is repealed but rather they would favour following the UK example, with women referred by GPs to NHS clinics for medical abortions, and the pills would come from there. The Deputy failed to mention that element in the debate. In the Irish Independent report, of the almost 500 GPs surveyed by gpbuddy.iein a closed doctor forum, almost 60% of GPs stated they supported repeal of the eighth amendment, with 25% saying they would vote against it. We should provide facts to the Dáil rather than selectively picking pieces that suit our own arguments.

This debate is not just about a woman's right to control her own body but it is also a question of a woman's health. I will campaign very energetically for repeal and I support the all-party committee's report on further legislation. Having said that, it has become clear in my mind that many people have reservations about the recommendation of abortion up to 12 weeks on demand. Over the weekend I spoke to someone who, while supporting repeal, also had reservations about the 12 week proposal. I am sure other Deputies and Senators campaigning and having discussions with constituents have found similar concerns. This is undoubtedly an area where the advocates of keeping the amendment will concentrate their well-funded campaign. We need to avoid being drawn into an emotional and aggressive debate, with so-called facts and figures thrown around that will confuse people rather than inform them. We need to keep the debate rational, with a focus on the work of the Citizens' Assembly and the all-party committee that based its recommendations on a wide range of medical experience and best international practice.

There is no test or medical examination to prove rape or incest. We cannot put medical professionals into a position where they must interrogate an already traumatised pregnant woman. The 12 week proposal is the best way to deal with pregnancy as a result of sexual crime and, of course, there is no compunction to have a termination. By repealing the eighth amendment and bringing in legislation, there will not be a compunction on anybody to have an abortion but it will provide a choice. Whatever decision is made by a woman, there will be support for that decision. The point must be made quite clearly. According to all recent polls, more than 70% of people support abortion as a choice for women subject to incest or rape. The message we must get out is that if we do not repeal the eighth amendment, the aspirations of women to access abortion will not be realised.

The 12 week proposal will not introduce the most liberal abortion laws internationally, as is claimed by some, but it will simply bring our laws into line with most other European Union states, where the norm is ten to 14 weeks. There is no proposal to introduce abortion on the grounds of disability and Down's syndrome, and they will be specifically excluded. It would be extremely rare to get a definite diagnosis of Down's syndrome in advance of being 12 weeks pregnant, according to Professor Peter Boylan. We must explain that the State with the most liberal abortion laws is the Netherlands, which has one of the lowest levels of abortions and where the rate is falling. That is a very important message. This arises because of Dutch investment in sex education and making contraception more freely available. I welcome the recommendations of the assembly and the all-party committee in those areas. Sex education should be taught through the school curriculum as set by the Department of Education and Skills rather than by small groups which come to schools to put their side of the story. It would make a difference if we moved that way. If people are educated well about reproduction and hope for the future, abortion rates will come down and there will be fewer crisis pregnancies.

We need to deal with these matters and the reality. There should be no more hypocrisy or Irish solutions for Irish problems. Nobody advocates abortion as the only choice but the choice should be there in our own country. I support the Bill before the House and the general recommendations of the all-party committee report. Points were made earlier about poverty, housing, health, disability and decent and equal pay for equal work. Essentially, people should not live in a society where they are underemployed and face economic and emotional crises. We should demand that the Government introduces Sláintecare health services and public housing so people can live a decent life with a roof over their heads. We should campaign for full disability rights, personal assistants, independent living and the protection of women's rights in the workplace. All this must be achieved in any society, and I have campaigned for them over a number of years along with others in this Dáil. Any practical and financial barriers, along with the criminal penalties, must be removed. I support this Bill.

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