Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Seán Barrett. This is an important debate and I have listened with great respect to all of the different views that have been expressed by every Member of the House and those who spoke to us about this matter in our communities and constituencies. I agree fundamentally with a point made by my colleague, Deputy Seán Barrett, that it is the voice of the people that will be heard clearly and, I hope, decisively on the day. After weighing up the hearings in the Houses and the various arguments they will hear between now and then, I hope the people will reach a decision based on serious and timely reflection.

I will speak first as a parent. My wife and I have three children. Our first baby was born through an non-elective caesarean, in other words, my wife had to have a caesarean. The subsequent two children were also born through an elective caesarean because she no longer had a choice in the matter. After our third child, the doctor advised us that medically she should not have more children. Thankfully, there was no subsequent pregnancy, but if there had been, what would we or, rather, what would she have done? This is the sort of issue that must address and with which I am dealing right now.

What if a woman with a serious heart condition has an unwanted pregnancy? She might not die as a result of having the baby, but her health could be seriously compromised. What if she has other serious medical conditions? That is an important issue for us to consider. In cases in which significant medical problems arise what can the mother do and what will we in Ireland do? A Deputy mentioned what was available in England, but what we have in England are thousands of Irish women, many of whom are in the category I am discussing, who have travelled there to have an abortion for medical or other reasons. We cannot deny the fact that many Irish women go there because they have serious medical conditions and that, if they have their babies, it will compromise their health which could lead to long-term, life-threatening outcomes. In every pregnancy there are two beating hearts, the mother's and the child's. Those who decide they need to have an abortion must have serious reasons for so doing. A medical condition that may be life threatening is one such reason. I would support and trust a mother in that position.

The other issues that arise are cases of rape, incest and fatal foetal abnormality. Where a woman has been raped or incest occurs, I cannot think of a more appalling or evil act, apart from murder. I would support a woman who has been raped or subjected to incest and is now pregnant in her decision to terminate the pregnancy. Such decisions would not be made lightly or on a whim. Even if the woman could ever talk about the evil things done to her, it would not be for a significant time. I understand part of the reason for having a 12-week period within which it is proposed a termination may take place is one cannot interrogate a mother about whether she was raped, make her prove that she was raped and make her say who, what, where and why. It will not happen. Even if a woman has been raped, it can often take more than a year for the case to come to court.

Incest, a most foul and evil act, often happens to younger women of perhaps 12, 13 or 14 years. In a such case one would not interrogate the mother within the three month period either. It is a long time and there is no denying the foetus has a beating heart at three months, but I would trust the woman and support her if she decided to have a termination.

Apart from the mothers who travel to England, each year thousands of Irish women import what is called the abortion pill which they purchase on the Internet. That is illegal, but it cannot be stopped because it is widely available. If a mother takes the abortion pill and experiences serious medical difficulties, to whom can she go, whom can she trust and what doctor can she ring? She cannot ring anyone. If she rings her doctor, it is illegal for him or her to advise her on the issue.

We must recognise what is happening and deal with it. Abortions should be rare and always safe. They should only happen if there is no other choice. In cases involving rape, incest, fatal foetal abnormalities or serious medical conditions, if the mother so decides, I trust and support her in making that decision. What we need, as legislators, is a recognition of the facts. I have spoken as a parent and a Member of Parliament and believe it is wrong that thousands of Irish women, having given significant thought to their concerns, have to travel to the United Kingdom each year. We should facilitate them in this country and that is what the legislation is about.

I accept the points made about counselling, as it is important that it be made available at every stage to a mother who wishes to think, talk, listen and learn about all of the options available to her. It is important that it be non-directive. I also support the committee's recommendations on sex and relationships education and a range of people's other needs that are not being dealt with fully in our society as constituted. I have listened to the medical opinions of eminent doctors. I accept that people hold the genuine belief the Houses in their hearings were not presented to by those whom they would have liked to have been asked to attend; therefore, let us hear them in the debate which will take place in the next few months. I will be happy to attend any meeting to listen to any argument and everyone because it is only by opening up our minds to every possibility on all sides of the argument that the people will make the right decision.

For me, it ultimately comes down to understanding and sympathising and empathising with the difficulties the women in question face in society.

They are faced with no choice but the boat to England and a cold place where they know nobody to go through a procedure that is extremely difficult even when one is in a homely and friendly atmosphere with people one knows and where people are supportive. If a woman is taking that pill in her house in Ireland tonight, I want her to be able to pick up the telephone, telephone the hospital, doctor or whoever she wishes to telephone, and for the advice to be available within the law of the country notwithstanding the difficulties she has had in making the decision to take that pill or to go to England. Ultimately, we are a compassionate country and we are a compassionate and caring people. We respect people who make that very difficult choice. The timeline we are proposing will allow time to reflect on it.

I respect everybody in the House. I respect the caring society we have. I do not believe what is happening is right or acceptable. It has to change and I believe the changes are proportionate, well thought out and are backed up by medical evidence. They recognise the very difficult position mothers are in and will continue to be in. Even if the eighth amendment stays, there probably will not be another referendum for many years. Mothers who make this decision will still decide to go to England and they will still take the pill without proper legal medical advice. That is unacceptable.

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