Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

If the Minister decides to proceed with the plan to introduce legislation, it will be a case of him doing so while knowing with clear certainty that it will be practically impossible to implement, given the scale of opposition to it by GPs. I am sure they do not do this lightly. They do so with the best of consciences. They have a Hippocratic oath to look after people and mind them, so this is a considered opinion. This is a big blow and very startling. It is a crippling blow and an embarrassment for the Minister, Deputy Harris, and all those whose only intent is to foist an unrestricted abortion regime upon our people. Serious consideration must now be given to scrapping the proposal in light of the inherent unworkability of the proposals that has been clearly exposed.

I will now go back to the indecent haste. The Business Committee met only yesterday at 2.30 p.m. Many Deputies had gone home. We did not have a Bill. We did not have the so-called explanatory memorandum. We did not have an explanation from the Minister and his officials. We did not have anything. We did not have it this morning when he came into speak. Bhí deich nóiméad imithe before we got the speech. This is the indecent haste. We got the Bill online at 10.15 a.m., and several hours later we were expected to deal with this legislation on such a serious issue.

If we do not have doctors offering it, serious consideration must be given to scrapping the proposal in light of its inherent unworkability, which has been clearly exposed. The only other option is the likes of private, profit driven UK and US abortion providers, with appalling health records, to set up shop here. Has anyone considered this appalling vista? They should have the guts to say so.

The Minister of State must now answer. How will it be delivered if the GPs have flatly refused? We know these people are only too willing. They are keen to come to this country, because theirs is a murky, dirty, money-driven business. We have seen that worldwide. We know they will do that if they ever get to operate here. That is exactly what they have done for years in the UK and tried to do in Northern Ireland.

Ms Liz McDermott from the group One Day More, one of the two witnesses before the Oireachtas Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution promoting pro-life values, said to the committee:

The provision of abortion is increasingly being questioned in other countries as people see where legalisation leads. Alternatives to abortion and support for women with difficult or unplanned pregnancies are also offered in these countries. However, because they do not have anything like the eighth amendment in place and abortion is widely lawful, they face obstacles and difficulties carrying out their work. [That much has been proven.] Organisations which do life sustaining work are stymied and prevented from reaching out to women in a supportive way to give them the opportunity - not a choice - to keep their baby.

When people came from different parts of the world to speak to us, hotels were bullied out of offering a venue for their public meetings. These speakers included victims of rape, women who were conceived in rape and others. Thankfully we found a hotel in Cork, Deputy Kelleher's county, that took them. We held a very productive meeting of 500 people, who shared stories that were telling. However, the Oireachtas committee did not want to hear them, nor did the Citizens' Assembly. Above all, did the Minister of State or anyone in the Government want to meet them? No.

Ms. McDermott went on to tell us "We can see from other countries that abortion is a large and profitable global industry." It is interesting to see the same politicians who rail against global industries every day supporting this one wholeheartedly. It is an interesting analogy as far as I am concerned. Every day of the week they rail against our own global giants and the global giants that come here from abroad. Yet on this issue, we are buying into one, hook, line and sinker. We are delighted. We welcome them with open arms. We are saying to them "tar isteach agus beidh an-airgead againn, come quick, brostaígí". The legislation is in a terrible hurry. Cén fáth? I would like the Minister to freagair an cheist sin, má tá sé ábalta. He should note that is nothing to smirk or be giddy about. It is a serious issue as far as I am concerned, though maybe for him it is not.

Abortion is a huge and purely money-centred industry. Ms McDermott went on to say:

Its practice, standards and methods are not always women centred, as is claimed, but may be more about profit. Just last month, the Care Quality Commission in Britain issued a damning report on the abortion provider, Marie Stopes. It revealed that staff were being paid bonuses to encourage women to go through with abortions. [I stress that this was an independent inquiry.] The inspectors found evidence of a policy in all 70 Marie Stopes clinics in the country directing staff to contact women who had decided not to go through with an abortion, offering them a new appointment.

Bonuses were offered to staff. These women were being traumatised. Many of them had decided not to have their abortion because of the eighth amendment or for other reasons. Perhaps compassionate people spoke to them. These women were being lobbied, as if the providers were salesmen selling car or hoovers to householders. It is despicable, and it is before our eyes. We know it. If the media would only be honest and fair it would print the news. In the words of Ms McDermott:

This is tantamount to placing pressure on women to opt for abortion and is rightly causing people to rethink their support for abortion and look at alternatives which genuinely care for women and babies. This is just one of several recent scandals involving the abortion industry in England and elsewhere.

Is this the kind of abortion regime we want here? It looks increasingly obvious that this is what we will get if the opposition of the GPs is anything to go by.

Those opposed to abortion are not all religious fanatics. I have teams out in Tipperary with whom I go out canvassing every night of the week. They are of all religions and none. Some are agnostics and some are non-believers. They believe in and value life.

In his rush to bring the Bill forward, the Minister said that we must have an open and respectful debate. He referred to Ms Savita Halappanavar, as did several other speakers who spoke before me. Will they not allow her to rest in peace? Three independent reports adjudicated that her death arose from a misdiagnosis and bad practice. Unfortunately, there are countless deaths from sepsis in our health service, even this year. There are greater numbers in the NHS in England and all over the word. For this woman's grave to pounced on gach lá in aon áit chun an scéal sin a rá is uafásach ar fad. I really am saddened by it. All the Deputies want a respectful debate.

Ms Halappanavar's husband appeared on radio with Ms Marian Finucane five weeks after the incident. We sympathise 100% with the loss of his wife and the mother of his expected baby. He was asked whether he wanted abortion introduced into Ireland. D'fhreagar sé an ceist by saying that he did not. This was on live radio. The recording has not been played since. I am demanding that RTÉ produces that replay. It was never accessible on the RTÉ player. It was removed. RTÉ is supposed to be responsible and fair, and our taxes fund it. The presenter then asked Mr. Halappanavar if he want his wife's situation to be used. He asked for it not to be used and misused. I heard Ms Halappanavar's mother being used in this way. People should respect his rights and not pounce on the grave. People can see what is going on.

What are we going to do? The Minister has made so many promises. A letter was given to me by several people in County Wicklow, the Minister's constituency. In the election campaign he promised that he was pro-life and would do everything he could to save lives. He is running and hiding from those constituents now. This promise was signed by him and sent out to thousands of voters at the time. He will have to freagar that ceist in áit eile.

Then we come onto Deputy Kelleher, who said that pro-life people do not trust the Oireachtas of the future. He conflated that with a claim that we do not trust women. This has nothing to do with that. The people have proved that they do not trust politicians. It was proved when the then Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, said he got a wallop or a kick from the public when he asked them to get rid of the Seanad. We need that Chamber because legislation is rushed through here and this Bill is evidence of that. This legislation is being made with indecent haste. It panders to certain groups that want a vote on 25 May at all costs. The optimum time to have a vote, if we want to have one, is September. Then all the students are back in college, all the kids are back in school and the vast majority of parents and guardians are insan tír anseo, they are back home from their laethanta saoire.

The mad rush will catch its proponents napping. How dare Deputy Kelleher say that? We are not saying that we do not trust women. I met 30 women at a meeting last night. I refer to young women and mothers who go out canvassing. We must not conflate this issue with mistrust of women. Deputy Jan O'Sullivan appealed for respect, careful perusal and compassion. She then went on to say talk about Savita again. Downright untruths and being peddled every day of the week in the House when the facts are there. We can access the evidence of the tragic loss of life that happened so unfortunately. In my county, I recently attended the funeral of a man in his 40s who died from sepsis. There are dozens of them in this country, more this year than ever, with the serious incidences of flu that took place. The story of Ms Halappanavar is used that all the time. Deputy Adams spoke about respect and respectful debate. That tells its own story.

I will return to the subject of the Citizens' Assembly, the very genesis of this. The night I met the then Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, before he formed the Government, I asked him about the eighth amendment, because he knew where I stood. He assured me there would not be any problem. He said there would be a Citizens' Assembly, followed by an Oireachtas committee and then a free vote, and everything would be hunky-dory. It is not hunky-dory. The Citizens' Assembly was caught napping only last week, when replacements had to be sought. I wonder why they had to get so many replacements? I compliment people who give their time to serve on the Citizens' Assembly. However, the real citizens' assembly is an áit seo - Teach Laighean. That is the citizens' assembly to which we were elected. I am privileged and honoured have been elected to represent Tipperary. We all have that privilege. This is the citizens' assembly; not that carry-on that cost €2 million. We do not have money to pay for people's orthodontic treatment and we are bussing patients to Belfast to get their cataracts done. Deputies Michael Collins and Danny Healy-Rae and I have all experienced this. However, we have money to throw away on this.

As for the RED C poll, I do not trust any polling company to be honest. I never hired one in my life or engaged one.

I can say that with impunity. The company was caught when it wanted to replace people but we knew the whole time that there was a malfunction, a set-up and a stitch-up there because 11 counties, including my own, were left out of the Citizens' Assembly. RED C has further acknowledged this in its own report. Thousands of people have written to the Government looking for an independent report on what went on. It was a stitch-up and, as I said before, the stitches are briste. The geansaí or gúna has fallen apart and is in a heap of brus. That is what happened. RED C has acknowledged that it would need at least 400 or 500 people to have any kind of representative example of the voting population of our Twenty-six Counties. It has admitted that, yet Ms Justice Laffoy is happy to say that everything is okay. I refer to when replacements were being looked for and I want to ask a ceist. Cad a tharla do na teachtaí in the assembly? Why did those people all leave after the first part of it, or after the piece dealing with the eighth amendment? The assembly had other work to do as well.

We then saw the flagrant abuse that went on to select new people, involving selecting family and friends. It was a set-up, a stitch-up and a codology. Someone else last night used the word "codology" instead of "theology". There is much codology here, but the people - tá siad ag fanacht. They are waiting in their houses and are ready to come out here. They did not trust the Government or the politicians - tá Deputy Kelleher imithe - when they refused to give more powers to the Oireachtas. They said "No" then as well. They did not trust the politicians when they wanted to get rid of the Seanad. We have a wise, intelligent and educated electorate, thankfully. I want every person to be able to be in the country to vote. People say I do not want them to cast their vote. I am a democrat to my very foundations. It is only fair and it is respectful that people vote. It is not like the sham of the Citizens' Assembly, a con job. A polling company that was friendly to the Government got the job. This is what happened. The Government has been found out and caught napping. As I said, there is much untruth here. It sticks in my throat to hear Members talking about the late, poor, unfortunate Savita Halappanavar when her family has asked that she not be used in this issue.

I ask representatives about tomorrow too. Tens of thousands of people will be walking in Dublin tomorrow. I would ask some of the parties of the left, especially, to refrain from the indignation and the disgraceful spitting on, and attacking of, people who want to express their democratic right to march in Dublin tomorrow. I have been on those marches before and I will be there tomorrow. There will be intimidation, bullying and-----

See this speech in context