Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Ó Laoghaire and his party for introducing this Private Members' Bill. I also thank the Law Reform Commission for its work in preparing the report on Harmful Communications and Digital Safety, which was published in September 2016. Deputies will be aware that the report’s recommendations were effectively split in two parts: the first concerning the reform of criminal law, and the second concerning the establishment of a digital safety commissioner. Deputy Brendan Howlin introduced the Harassment, Harmful Communications and Related Offences Bill 2017, which addresses those parts of the Law reform Commission report on the reform of criminal law and harmful communications. Deputy Ó Laoghaire’s party brought forward a similar Bill. Deputy Howlin’s Bill was discussed on Second Stage in the House on 31 January and, as on that occasion, the Government will not be opposing the passage of the Digital Safety Commissioner Bill 2017.

I strongly welcome the opportunity to speak on this legislation because as the father of four young children I believe online safety is one of the greatest challenges we face today. It is, however, important that our response to the risks is measured and that we acknowledge the benefits as well as the threats that are out there. The online and offline worlds are one and the same in the lives of today’s teenagers. We need to work with them and listen to them so that our solutions are credible in their eyes.

I and three colleagues, the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Charles Flanagan, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Katherine Zappone and the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Richard Bruton addressed the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Children and Youth Affairs yesterday. I thank that committee for its work on this subject, and I look forward to receiving its report and recommendations shortly. The fact that four Cabinet Ministers appeared before a committee together, something which I believe is unprecedented, is a testament to this Government’s commitment to working together to make the Internet a safer place for all users, but especially for our children. In addition to the Ministers who appeared at the committee yesterday, the Minister for Health, Deputy Simon Harris and the Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Heather Humphreys, also have roles to play, and their Departments are involved in the organisation of the open policy debate on online safety. I will return to this subject later.

An interesting aspect of yesterday’s discussion was that the committee members wanted to know where overall responsibility should rest for online safety. Some committee members proposed that we would have a Minister for the Internet. It is tempting when speaking about any issue which cuts across many Government Departments to gravitate towards this type of solution. The reality is that no single Department or Minister can be responsible for solving all of the issues relating to online safety. There are at least six Departments involved in this area and I believe our goal should be to find a way to work together in a better and more seamless way from the public's point of view.

As the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, online safety for children has been a personal policy priority for me. We were all deeply disturbed by the reports of recent cases of horrific online behaviour perpetrated in Ireland. As a society we must respond, but we must also realise that a solution appropriate to these cases is not necessarily the solution for all types of online behaviour and content.

At the other end of the spectrum entirely, we are talking about hurtful comments and cyberbullying, where the perpetrators can in many cases be young people themselves. I have said many times that there is no one single action which will fix the Internet. I was struck by Professor Brian O’Neill’s contribution to the Joint Committee on Children and Youth Affairs last year. He explained that all research over the past 20 years showed that a multi-stakeholder approach to online safety is required. We need to find 21st century solutions to these problems. Yes, legislation may form part of those solutions, but it is not a panacea. It should be seen as only one part of a wider range of actions that we should consider. I would also like to recognise the work which is already under way across a range of Government Departments, work which was strongly acknowledged at yesterday’s meeting of the Joint Committee on Children and Youth Affairs.

My position on the need to establish an office of a digital safety commissioner has been widely reported and acknowledged. The specific roles envisaged for the digital safety commissioner set out in this Bill include promoting digital safety for all persons and supporting and encouraging the implementation of measures to improve digital safety. Recognising the proactive role which the Ombudsman for Children has played in this area, the proposed commissioner would support the preparation and publication by the Office of the Ombudsman for Children of guidance material for schools. Other functions refer to education and awareness measures including collecting, analysing and disseminating information relating to digital safety; supporting, encouraging, conducting and evaluating research about digital safety; publishing reports and papers relating to digital safety; and promoting positive use of the Internet and active online citizenship.

The proposed commissioner would also have a role in coordinating the activities of Government Departments and other bodies in this area. I believe all stakeholders would agree on these aspects. It is important to note that some of these functions are already being carried out, at least to some extent, across a range of Departments. We can and should identify practical steps that we can take in the short term without necessarily waiting for the establishment of a statutory office. Work is currently under way to identify those steps.

I acknowledge the suggestion of Deputy Ó Laoghaire about establishing an advisory council. That is a very welcome and constructive suggestion. I also acknowledge the suggestion of Deputy Denise Mitchell regarding a one-stop shop for best practice. We do not need a statutory basis to set up something like that, but it is something that needs to be established.

In the interest of clarity, I must emphasise that there are aspects of this Bill which raise jurisdictional and other legal issues and which require far greater examination and scrutiny after Second Stage. Specific legal difficulties in the Bill include the following. First, there are significant issues with definitions in the Bill. For example the Bill does not define what is meant by “harmful communications” other than those which will be addressed through criminal law. Second, the Bill provides for a role for the courts where an entity is established outside the State in respect of a harmful communication. It is not clear how this would work in practice. Third, the Bill imposes a number of obligations on digital service undertakings established in the State. Fourth, the overlap with other State organisations with statutory and non-statutory roles in this area is not clear. I flag these issues in order to be helpful and not as a hindrance to the progression of this legislation.

The Bill also fails to take into account the impact that such a measure would have in a European context. As we all know the Internet does not respect borders and for that reason a joined up approach at a European or even global level is key. In fact, next week the Global Internet and Jurisdiction Conference will be held in Ottawa, Canada. It provides an ideal opportunity to have such issues progressed. The European Commission published its communication in respect of illegal content on online platforms last September and it is due to bring forward proposals on the next steps by May of this year. This is significant as the European Commission is taking action to ensure an effective system of notice and take-down is observed by online platforms in respect of illegal content.

Other member states have brought in measures which seek to impose stricter measures on Internet companies. There are examples of legislative and even constitutional restrictions on certain content across the European Union, but results have been mixed so we need to learn from this. We are in a far stronger position when we work in tandem with our European partners. Action at European level, whether it relates to criminal or harmful content, will bring about far more coherent results than a purely national approach, not least in respect of Internet providers that are not based in Ireland. Given the action which the Commission is taking, it could be premature to take unilateral action in respect of a statutory code of conduct at this time. However, this is something that should be kept under close and constant review.

We must also recognise in this debate the role which is being played by An Garda Síochána. It will always have statutory responsibility for illegal content in Ireland. I commend it on its recent successful operations, including Operation Ketch. We must recognise that it has been extremely effective in ensuring that illegal content is removed. My colleague, the Minister for Justice and Equality, is working on legislation in the area of harmful communications which will further strengthen the hand of An Garda Síochána. I also commend the joint approach by An Garda Síochána, Webwise and the Professional Development Service for Teachers in marking Safer Internet Day.

Another example of the activity taking place with which I am familiar is my responsibility for implementing the revisions to the Audiovisual Media Services Directive. While a final text is yet to be agreed at European level, this directive will ensure that video sharing platform services such as YouTube have measures in place to protect users, especially minors, from harmful video content. Some 500 hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every single minute. We will also be required to formalise the regulation of non-linear or on-demand services such as Netflix and the RTÉ player. This is another positive step in making the Internet a safer place for all users, but especially children. It is likely that the revised directive will be agreed in the coming months and my Department will begin a public consultation on how best to implement its provisions.

Online safety is complex, but some of the solutions are clear. We need to do more, but we also need to make sure that there is greater awareness of all the resources and supports that are available right now. We want to make sure that our children are not only tech savvy, but also safety conscious; that parents know where they can turn to for help; and that there is a joined-up approach to everything we do. These are measures that can be strengthened today without waiting for legislative change.

As I have outlined, a number of Departments and agencies are already involved in delivering many services which are aimed at safeguarding citizens online. Rather than being overly prescriptive in this area, I am keen to work on practical steps we can take now. This means working with parents, young people, non-governmental organisations, NGOs, and technology companies to take actions that will make a real and practical difference.

I convened a meeting between my colleagues, the Minister for Justice and Equality and the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, on this issue last November. We agreed that the most appropriate way to move online safety forward would be to hold an open policy debate to help us identify gaps and the practical steps needed to fill them. As I have mentioned, this open policy debate will be held on 8 March and six Departments, led by my own, are involved in organising it. The overall aim of the event is to raise awareness among all participants of the activities being undertaken by the Government, the European Commission, industry and NGOs. The ideas and feedback generated on the day will also feed into a Government action plan which will underpin future actions and policies. All Deputies are welcome to attend on the day and are asked to contact my office if they are interested in doing so. I sincerely hope they do.

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The output of the open policy debate will allow Government to set out an integrated set of measures to continue to tackle the issues arising in respect of online safety, and to strengthen communication and information for the general public in respect of supporting children and young people to stay safe online.

Once again I thank Deputy Ó Laoghaire for bringing forward this Bill, which the Government will not oppose. As I have previously highlighted, there are significant legal and jurisdictional issues that must be overcome before the Bill could be enacted, but it is important that we debate these points and come forward with practical, implementable solutions. That is why in tandem with moving forward the legislative side, we must identify areas we can progress in the interim. There are lots of areas in which we can work together and take a co-operative approach. I value the contributions which all Deputies, on all sides will make to this debate tonight, to the work of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Children and Youth Affairs and to the open policy debate in March. It is only by working together that we can begin to make the Internet a safer place for all citizens, but especially for our children.

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