Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 9 together.

I thank Deputies Barry and Broughan for raising this important matter. Under section 39 of the Health Act 2004, the HSE provides financial assistance to organisations by means of a grant. Many of those organisations provide very useful and valuable services that our citizens appreciate. Section 39 legally underpins the provision of services similar or supplementary to a service that the HSE may provide. In 2017, the HSE provided funding of approximately €800 million to over 2,200 of these agencies. The funding provided can range from high value, in the millions, to relatively modest amounts of just a few hundred euro. The point I am making is that many section 39 organisations have different scales and sizes

Staff in these organisations were not subject to the provisions of the FEMPI legislation. They were not a party to the public service agreements and are not covered by the pay restoration provided for in these agreements. These are not value judgements or views; they are just facts. While it is understood that pay savings were made by the organisations, the precise mix of pay cuts or other savings measures will have varied. I have seen that some did apply pay cuts and others may not have while some have restored them and some may not have. Also, where there were pay cuts, it is not at all clear that they were applied in a universally consistent manner, as was the case in the public sector and consequently, there is a complexity to this issue.

Therefore, the Government believes that we need a much deeper understanding of the funding position in these grant-aided organisations and the true extent of the pay reductions applied. In establishing the position, I am obliged to have regard to the legitimate taxpayer and value-for-money issues that arise. That is why I have requested that the HSE engages with the section 39 organisations to establish the facts around what cuts were applied and how and when they were implemented. I have asked that the executive complete this exercise as soon as practicable having regard to the large number of organisations concerned. Officials from my Department and the executive are continuing to engage with the relevant trade unions to ensure that this work is carried out on a consensus basis. We want to reach agreement in terms of how we do this. I note that one union has already agreed to how this should proceed while another has not.

I am mindful of the threatened industrial action in a number of these organisations, which is scheduled to commence with a one-day work stoppage next week. I believe that the process which I have outlined should address the concerns raised by the trade unions in a fair and transparent way. I am very conscious that the trade union movement has called for a process. I believe we need a process and I genuinely hope that agreement can be reached. I understand that the Irish Congress of Trade Unions is engaged in conversations with management in this regard. It is at a very sensitive stage so while wishing to be as forthcoming as I always like be with the Dáil, I must be careful not to say anything that would in any way jeopardise something that is at a very sensitive stage. I hope a resolution can be reached because there should be no disruption to the delivery of these services. I know the unions do not want that, I do not want that and certainly the people depending on the services do not need that either.

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