Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Cuirim fáilte roimh an díospóireacht thábhachtach seo. I thank Deputies for their contributions on this important national strategic issue. I welcome the general tone of the comments that have been made. Before I respond to the matters raised by Deputies, I would like to make a number of points. As the Minister of State, Deputy McHugh, has already outlined, the Government is fully committed to tackling climate change. Ireland and its European partners are fully playing their part in achieving the EU climate goals. We have set out our actions and our future direction in the national mitigation strategy, which tackles energy-related greenhouse gas emissions and focuses on energy-efficiency and decarbonising our energy system. The effect of this will be to increase renewable energy and to reduce the fossil fuel component of Ireland's energy use. The mitigation strategy is a living document. We recognise that more actions will need to be taken. I believe the Irish people are willing to take more actions and to change their behaviour.

The Government must oppose the Petroleum and Other Minerals Development (Amendment) (Climate Emergency Measures) Bill 2018. Banning oil and gas exploration and production is not a commitment under the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change or the Paris Climate Agreement. Similarly, banning exploration was not recommended by Citizens' Assembly in its deliberations on making Ireland a leader in tackling climate change. Oil and gas exploration and production continue to be undertaken by other developed countries in Europe, including the UK, Norway, the Netherlands and Denmark. These countries have ambitious climate change goals and are strongly promoting renewable energy. The Bill before us is not a credible proposition. If it were passed, it would neither reduce Ireland’s greenhouse gas emissions nor change or reduce our use of fossil fuels. However, it would lock Ireland into permanent dependency on imports for its future fossil fuel needs in the post-Corrib scenario.

In the coming decades, Ireland and the EU as a whole will require some supplies of fossil fuels, particularly natural gas, which is viewed as a transition fuel in the period up to 2050. As the Minister of State, Deputy McHugh, has said, the White Paper on energy commits to decarbonisation but also states that natural gas will be a transitional fuel out to 2050. It should be noted that among the EU 28, the dependency on imports in the case of oil increased from 74% in 1995 to 89% in 2015. In the case of natural gas, the dependency on imports increased from 43% to 69%. The Corrib gas field demonstrates the impact that indigenous supplies can have on Ireland's import dependency. Ireland went from importing 89% of its overall energy needs in 2015 to 70% of its needs in 2016. However, production from the Corrib field will peak and decline from 2019 onwards. Thereafter, we will become increasingly dependent on imports for gas and 100% dependent on imports for oil.

The Government and the public are willing to tackle climate change. Unfortunately, however, we reject this Bill as gesture politics. During a debate on the departmental Vote last year, I proposed to Deputy Bríd Smith and numerous Senators that the relevant Oireachtas committee should hold a broad policy debate on national energy policy to inform any legislation. However, this Bill has been proposed before any such debate has taken place. I certainly did not try to stop a debate. In fact, I encouraged it when I addressed the Deputy at the committee and during the Seanad debate on the fracking Bill. I also encouraged it through my officials with the Chair of the committee and also with the clerk to the committee. I recommended over recent times that there should be a general debate on energy security and policy. When the Chairman of the joint committee spoke earlier, she said she is agreeable to including a debate on this issue as part of the work policy over the coming period.

I would like to respond to some of the comments that were made by Deputies. I assure Deputy Bríd Smith that this Bill is not in accordance with Government policy. As I have said, the White Paper on energy classifies gas as a transitional fuel.

France has been mentioned as an example. I remind the House that nuclear power is a major part of France's energy supply. The French electrical grid is connected to seven different countries. This means we are not comparing like with like when we compare Ireland with France. Obviously, we have no nuclear power. I do not think anybody is asking for a change in that regard. At present, our only gas and electricity connections are to the UK, which is about to leave the EU. There are plans for a Celtic interconnector to France by 2025 and this will facilitate the importation of nuclear-generated power. France's future energy mix is 50% renewables, which I welcome, and 50% nuclear. Costa Rica has also been mentioned. Costa Rica has a moratorium on petroleum exploration and extraction until 2021.

Our targets have also been mentioned during the debate. Under the EU renewable energy directive, there is a legally binding target for us to meet of 16% of our energy demand from renewable sources by 2020. We have admitted for a long time that meeting that target remains challenging, although we hope to achieve it. According to the most recent analysis from the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, we will achieve between 13.2% and 15.4% of it, which is between 82% and 96% of our target.

Yes, we would like to be able to do more and certainly it is our ambition to increase that over time.

Deputy Murphy talked about the Citizens' Assembly and I stated that it did not recommend stopping offshore oil exploration. He also mentioned the need to address peat and coal, with which I agree, and natural gas is a transitional fuel and has a lower emission basis.

Deputies Dooley, Lawless, Stanley and Sherlock all recognised the complexity of the issue and I agree with them. Hence the rationale for having a debate in committee to tease out issues as supported by the Chair of the committee, Deputy Naughton. The Bill pre-empts any debate and does not cover the broad range of issues that would form part of an holistic debate. Deputy Collins said the Bill would not affect existing exploration licences as drafted. In fact, it would. It does not permit progression from licence to lease.

Deputy Lawless again talked about energy security, which is part of the reasoning behind not supporting the Bill. I mentioned this in respect of the interconnector. Deputy Eamon Ryan talked about bringing in climate experts and I agree with having a full debate at committee on this. Nobody was stopping it. Since we banned onshore fracking we have been actively encouraging that this debate take place. It would bring in groups like the International Energy Agency, some of the NGOs that are in the Gallery, oil producers and other reasonable groups that would have an interest and a view in respect of this topic.

Deputy Coppinger talked about Fine Gael being climate deniers. We are certainly not. I do not know anybody within Fine Gael, within my parliamentary party, who does not believe that climate change is real and is an issue in our society. We fully believe that climate change is real. I have stated that numerous times. We have our policies on it. I do not know anybody within the parliamentary party who is denying climate change. People talk about capitalism and large oil exploration companies. I am not sure who we are going to get to build the offshore farms when they come, or the offshore renewables. They will be multi-million euro projects that are going to need investment from large companies and conglomerates. The Minister of State, Deputy McHugh, mentioned the work that is being done on offshore renewables in respect of wave energy and floating pontoons for offshore wind turbines.

I spoke at a conference here in Dublin last Friday morning. There was a mention of the Lir facility, the Galway Bay test site and the Belmullet test site, all of which are developing renewables. It was commented that we will be the Saudi Arabia of renewables. We have that potential in relation to renewables and it was said that we will be the leading country in the world but that technology is not here yet. It is advancing. We are supporting it. The Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI, is supporting it but it is not just here yet. I am also very worried by the objections to wind farms that we continuously have. I have seen it locally. It is a complex issue that impacts on people and I expect, unfortunately, that there might be a policy of some people objecting even to offshore wind production as well, when the time comes.

When I signed the licence for Providence, there was this talk about 5 billion barrels of oil that were going to be burned. Not all oil that is found is actually burned. There is a huge number of uses for oil in the world, for plastics, medicine, bitumen for our roads, clothing, parachutes, safety glasses, golf balls, fishing rods, detergents, candles, credit cards, sunglasses, tents, guitar strings, shoe polish, contact lenses, eye glasses, toothpaste, antifreeze - there is a huge array of products that oil and hydrocarbons are used for in everyday society. We have to acknowledge that. Not all oil that can be discovered is actually burned. It is put to a lot of other uses.

As an island, we also have to acknowledge that we are technology takers. I said on radio when I was debating with Senator Grace O'Sullivan that I would love to have a situation where we could say there was no need for oil or gas and that day will eventually come. However, as an island, for example, there is no alternative to jet fuel for people going on holidays until there are technology changes. There is the marine sector. There is perhaps technology in that sector in respect of hydrogen, but we are not there yet in terms of alternatives to those very important uses of hydrocarbons.

I am not in a position to support the Bill. I have encouraged a debate in committee, a larger debate than just this Bill, about energy security and alternative uses. We fully support the climate change objectives. Our Department is encouraging those changes and I welcome the debate here and look forward to a larger debate in committee on overall energy policy.

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