Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

We broadly support this Bill. The publication of the legislation, debate in the Seanad and, previous to that, the discussions we had at the health committee and various other health fora over many years, indicate that this Bill is long overdue in addressing a fundamental issue facing society, namely, our unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

The Minister has outlined statistics on the volume of alcohol consumed by Irish people. The fact that Ireland is fourth in the binge-drinking league table and one of the highest consumers of pure alcohol indicates we have a challenge in shifting our mindset in respect of our relationship with alcohol and addressing the fundamental problems it causes in society.

Reference has been made to, for example, the number of bed days lost every year in our health service. It is approximately 160,000, just less than 4%. With our hospital system running at well over 94% or 95% occupancy, in many larger hospitals, it indicates this is an issue that has impacts on broader public health policy and the provision of services in our health system. Many people might accuse this of being nanny statism. However, the State has an obligation and a duty to insure it brings forward policies that reflect the challenges of not only the individual but the challenges placed on society and the State from addressing the fallout from harmful drinking in our country.

Looking broadly at our consumption rates, they are very high and they are not coming down. There is no point in saying otherwise. We do have to accept that this particular measure is necessary. I also believe it goes to show that if mindsets are changed through legislation and educational programmes, progress can be made. In the context of road safety and the number of people killed and injured on our roads compared to a number of years ago, there has been a seismic shift. I know there have been technological advances in the context of cars, roads and everything else, but there has also been a seismic shift in our mindset in terms of alcohol, drink-driving and our relationship to public safety.

We have also had the situation with regard to smoking and the reduction in tobacco consumption among our population. However, we have a long way to go. That is why I think it is not good enough just to bring forward legislation. The message that is underpinning this particular legislation has to be driven home consistently in terms of binge drinking and harmful drinking. I refer to the impacts it has on the individual, families, collectively on society and the State in terms of provision of services and the cost of providing services.

It may be an anecdote but only yesterday my office had to call an ambulance for a person who was very intoxicated. The individual in question fell outside the office and cut his forehead. While he was being taken away, he still had a naggin of Paddy in his hand. It does consistently on a daily basis impact on the ability of the State to provide health care in terms of our emergency services during the day and more importantly at weekends and at nights. Many of our hospitals encounter that particularly on a Friday and Saturday night. It does have a huge impact.

The legislation has been a long time coming. We have had many experts at various health committees over the years trying to encourage, cajole and nudge those involved with the legislative process to take action. There is no doubt that there are strong lobby groups. Many of them come at this matter from the perspective that they are trying to defend their industry. However, there is no doubt that this legislation's sole purpose has to be to reduce the consumption of alcohol. I refer primarily to harmful drinking. It is evident we are going to have strong lobby groups from the drinks lobby industry, IBEC and others that see this as a potential threat in terms of reducing alcohol intake. Be under no illusions, that is the welcome purpose of the Bill. We support its passage through the Dáil.

There are a number of issues in respect of minimum unit pricing. There has been a great deal of scaremongering. Some of the figures were referred to already. If we look at current pricing arrangements in our supermarkets, the price charged in Tesco for a can of Dutch Gold is the only that will actually increase. Let us be honest, empty Dutch Gold cans can often been seen around the place. When we have cheap alcohol, we will have an increased consumption and harmful drinking. That is very evident. Be under no illusions as well this is an area that we still have to address and challenge. I refer to the whole culture of binge drinking and prinks in people's houses before they head out to nightclubs, particularly the younger cohort. This is having devastating impacts on younger people. There is also a link between increased alcohol consumption, binge drinking, mental health challenges, mental health issues, suicidal ideation and suicide. There are huge challenges. While this legislation will help in terms of making it less attractive for people to drink, we still have to face the fundamental problem of the mental health issues that are very prevalent because of our unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

I am intrigued by the broadcast watershed to the effect that a person shall not broadcast or cause to be broadcast an advertisement for an alcohol product on a television programme service between the hours of 3 a.m. and 9 p.m. I was a little puzzled by the choice of 3 a.m. There are not many people up at 3 a.m., and certainly not kids. That is, unless a person is up with a child watching "Balamory", "Wonder Pets!" or "Dora the Explorer" and walking the floorboards at 3 a.m. It is unusual to see the watershed starting at 3 a.m. right through. It is an important that we challenge the advertising that is prevalent in this area of alcohol and the huge impact that has.

Let us be honest. We all still remember sporting events by dint of the sport itself but we also recall the names of the companies that sponsored these events. Sponsorship has a powerful impact on people. This is all about normalising alcohol and healthy sports people in an arena. That is why the companies involved target sports and the big national sporting occasions we have in this country whereby they make the subtle link between physical prowess and alcohol. It is an approach that has to be challenged and addressed. It is a nefarious form of advertising that companies would target sporting events primarily for that purpose.

I refer to the issue of segregation. The Minister and Deputy Corcoran Kennedy spent long arduous hours in the Seanad discussing this issue. The purpose of the Dáil and the Seanad is to try to get legislation through that will have an impact but equally has broad buy-in and is seen as practical legislation. I think that the amendments brought forward in the Seanad will address some of those particular issues. We want broad buy-in. We want people to embrace this legislation even though it may have a negative impact on profit margins at the end of the day. However, for the good of society, it is important that they step up to the plate and embrace it.

In respect of the minimum unit pricing, as the Minister well knows, the Scottish were challenged in the European court. What was involved there was found to be in accordance with bringing forward minimum unit pricing for public health reasons. The broader issue of course was that was meant to be done in the context of the United Kingdom, as far as I understand, and at least with Northern Ireland. We would simultaneously have minimum unit pricing both in the Republic and in the North. Where is this legislation in the context of Northern Ireland? Has it been delayed because the assembly is not up and running or is it broad UK policy? What exactly are the reasons for that not being rolled out in tandem with the legislation in the Republic?

We all have received representations about duty-free sales. People who are buying duty-free alcohol are leaving the State so the alcohol will not be consumed in the State. It is exempt from the minimum unit pricing. What is the position with labelling for alcohol that is leaving the State? Perhaps the Minister will clarify that. In addition, the Bill is a little unclear regarding who is responsible for the labelling, although perhaps that is my reading of it. In other words, if a bottle of alcohol is produced in this country, is the manufacturer, the wholesaler or the retailer responsible for labelling it? We need clarity on that. Equally, in the context of exports I assume alcohol does not have to be labelled when it is manufactured here and leaves the State through normal export channels, but perhaps the Minister will clarify that. These are the questions some of the micro breweries and distilleries are asking us. That equally applies to importing alcohol. The Minister referred to Chardonnay but it might be a nice Chablis imported from a boutique-type vineyard in France. Again, many people are wondering who is responsible for the labelling when the bottle arrives in Ireland. Is it the manufacturer in France, the importer, the wholesaler or the retailer? That should be clarified.

I hope that this Bill will have the impact we seek. One need not travel far from here on a Thursday, Friday or Saturday night to see what excessive drinking does to individuals and the broader society so we will support the Bill. As always, we will play a meaningful role on Committee Stage and we hope the Bill will be passed by the Dáil as quickly as possible. We are highlighting some issues on which we seek clarity and the Minister might be able to deal with them in his reply to this debate or on Committee Stage.

Undoubtedly, the drinks industry employs many people in this country. It spends a great deal of money in capital investment in plant, machinery, labour, training, advertising and buying product and raw material. It is a major industry. Many people have been lobbying from the various areas, such as people who are supplying malting barley to the breweries and distilleries and those involved in the manufacture of alcohol. They are a powerful influence, but it is important that Members put the public good before anything else. By and large, this legislation does that. The people behind it are not afraid to challenge those who would prefer if there was prevarication in bringing the Bill through the House. We do not wish to see that happen.

Referring to off-licences probably broadens the debate beyond the content of the Bill but is relevant in the context of the availability of alcohol. People have various views on this and I have raised questions on previous occasions when we have discussed it at health committee meetings. People can legally buy large volumes of drink in off-licences at 18 years of age. They can buy industrial quantities of alcohol. We need to accept what happens in society. The individual goes to the off-licence or supermarket with their identification, legally purchases industrial volumes of alcohol and walks out the door with the slab on their shoulder. The person goes across the road and ends up in a park, field or a corner of an estate. That person's girlfriend or boyfriend might be only 16 years of age and the girlfriend's or boyfriend's friend is only 14 or 15 years of age. In one move in the chain, it has gone from being purchased legally to being consumed illegally.

We are not doing enough in that area, to be truthful. We must address it in some way. Obviously, this legislation is not geared to deal with it as it focuses on the advertising, segregation and minimum unit pricing. However, the industrial scale purchases of alcohol in off-licences across the country is a major problem. I can take the Minister to places in my constituency, and I am sure he can take me to similar places in his constituency, where one would wonder if a truck had dumped all the cans, be it in the corner of a field, estate or park, such are the consumption levels. This Bill will not deal with that, but we must examine this issue in more detail or the problem will continue for years to come. Do not get me wrong - most off-licences are responsible and nobody is breaking the law. The drink is purchased legally, but it is consumed illegally across the road. I am concerned about that. I have said previously that it should be examined.

One can legally drink in a licensed premises at 18 years of age, but there is some form of supervision. I am not saying that this is the answer but is it possible to consider raising the age for off-licence purchases from 18 to 21 years of age? I have outlined the reasons for suggesting it. The 18 year old purchases the alcohol legally but his or her age peers, the people he or she hangs around with, can be as young as 14 or 15 years of age. Perhaps we should consider carrying out some research or analysis on this. It is a problem and this legislation will not address it. It is causing fundamental difficulties for young people and it can lead to other issues, such as youths congregating in groups. We all did that when we were teenagers, but now huge volumes of drink are being purchased and consumed in quick succession in one night. Then there is the introduction to various other drugs as well. This is happening every week and weekend all over Ireland. We must have a conversation on the issue. An 18 year old with a friend of 16 years of age cannot legally bring his or her friend to the pub to have a drink. Instead, they drink illegally outside. However, if one is over 21 years of age there is a better chance that one will go to a pub, as opposed to standing in the corner of a field under the rain to drink. At least it would be a controlled environment, with some type of overarching peer observation.

It might be something somebody in the Department might bear in mind when looking at public health policy and how we address those issues. I and probably every Deputy in the House would say this is where we have major problems with anti-social behaviour, drug taking, violence as a result of aggressive behaviour and so forth. All of it stems primarily from the fact that there was a legal purchase in an off-licence in some part of the country, after which it was consumed illegally in huge volumes. I hope that could be considered at some stage.

Overall, we wish to play an active role in the Bill going through Committee and Report Stages. In addition to the issues I raised earlier, I have an inquiry about carcinogenic labelling. The Minister referred to a Minister doing something by order or by regulation. Is everything in terms of labelling done by regulation or is there already a legislative provision in the Bill, as passed by the Seanad, that ties the Minister's hands to a certain extent with regard to flexibility? Perhaps the Minister will elaborate on those issues. The Bill is welcome and I hope it will have the desired impact in reducing harmful drinking across all age cohorts, but primarily in the generations coming after me. They have enough pressure in their lives.

However, binge drinking and such harmful activity on a continuous basis is having a broader impact that is causing mental health issues, violence and general harm to an already vulnerable group. I ask the Minister to consider the issues I have raised. I commend the Bill to the House.

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