Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank all the Deputies who contributed this evening. I have listened carefully to what they have said. It has been a great few hours because they have taken the time to examine both the Bill and many of its implications. The Deputies have been attentive to the concerns, questions and struggles of the people they represent.

I thank the current Chair of the committee, Deputy Farrell, as well as Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, who chaired the committee before. I also thank all the members of the committee who are present and who spoke. My officials and I feel supported by the way in which Deputies raised questions and interrogated the work we have done. Putting this in place will involve all the aspects that have to do with the affordable childcare scheme, not least of which is the Bill we have before us. I am grateful for the contributions.

I will address some of those points now although we will have more time when we move to Committee Stage. Some of the main points consistently raised pertain to child care in general, as distinct from this Bill specifically. The biggest issue most Deputies touched on had to do with the cost of child care. I acknowledge all the points that have been made in respect of the high cost of child care. I made some of those myself. I also wish to state clearly that I am aware that these high costs of child care have persisted for many years.

Over the past three years, the State, through the last three budgets, has provided an 80% increase in what we spend to support child care for parents and families. It is extremely significant that there has been that type of increase. All of the arguments made and the points raised will, I hope, help me to increase that investment substantially. I am acutely aware of the fact that it is still excessively costly. It is really important. To be fair, and to contextualise those points, we have significantly increased investment in the last couple of years.

We are trying to increase subsidies and affordability for families. That is always at the front of my mind. It is equally important, however, as I have indicated to many Deputies in the committee, that when I am looking for investment in this coming year, it also will be focused on the professionalisation of the workforce and additional quality measures that we can provide to those people who are integral to the development of our child care sector. On the issue of cost and expense, I note the Bill we are debating will finally establish the affordable childcare scheme and once we have such a legislative foundation, it will be easier for the State to invest. It will be easier also to invest in a way that targets the different policy priorities of the State and of the Government in charge at that time. That is a massive step forward, in addition to the ways in which we have significantly increased investment. At the same time I, along with my colleagues, acknowledge that is not enough.

Many Deputies also raised questions regarding the increase in fees by child care providers. According to the evidence, while some individual providers have increased their fees in 2017, on average fees for child care rose by just 4%. Perhaps it was by more than 4% in some constituencies but we have evidence that the average rise in full-time child care in 2017 was 4%. Fees for part-time child care actually fell in 2017. The 4% increase in fees needs to be seen in the context of no change in average fees between 2012 and 2015. I acknowledge that for many parents who experience that increase, even with significant subsidisation, that is not much consolation. At the same time, we all are aware it is critical that as the Government and the State invest, we must be focused both on affordability for families and on ensuring child care providers get the wages and pay they deserve. We must also support the professionalisation of the workforce.

Again, most Deputies are aware that the Department originally calculated and set the capitation rates that go to the different providers. In that sense we are responsible. The independent review of costs sponsored by my Department that is under way at present will be completed in time for me to have significant evidence to do my budget negotiations.

We will get clear evidence of what is required to not only provide an excellent service but also to pay professionals in a way that will ensure they are retained, that new people can be recruited and that we will have a workforce that is highly motivated to care for children.

Investing in child care does not in any way negate our valuing of parents contributions to the lives and care of their children inside or outside the home. I am directing these remarks specifically Deputy Mattie McGrath in the context of many of the issues he raised. Clearly, we are not in agreement on them but he asked me to respond. Many women, not unlike many men, wish to raise their children as well as work outside the home. We are trying to support all families but I recognise the great value of the contribution of those who care for their children in the home. These are not mutually exclusive. I support the extension of paid leave for parents during a child's first 12 months. The Government has also increased the home carer's tax credit but there is widespread agreement that one of the greatest challenges facing many families with young children, especially those trying to get out of poverty, is the high cost of child care. This was raised by many members. It is not an either-or issue. Both the ECCE scheme and the affordable child care scheme are open to parents who are at home and who want to use early years services as a complementary support for their work and for early education. It is critical to be attentive to all of that but I am also behind that expressing my commitment and views on the policy priorities and the ways in which we are investing.

Many Members, particularly the Chairman of the joint committee, Deputy Farrell, referred to the delay in the implementation of the IT system, which we have also discussed extensively at the committee. Originally, we had hoped to use the existing framework to procure an IT system. The delay is because of the extraordinary professionalism and sense of responsibility of not only officials in my Department but the experts with whom they have engaged to identify the best way, ultimately, to go about this. Though initially we had hoped to use existing framework, which was reasonable, it was also reasonable to seek legal advice once we agreed we were going to for the affordable child care scheme. The legal advice indicated that the framework was not suitable for this IT development. It caused us to have to proceed with an open tender procurement process instead and, although that was regrettable, we have obtained approval from the Office of the Government Chief Information Officer and I, in turn, have approved the publication of the request for tender. We have a peer review group process and an open tender procurement process, which should both ensure a robust and high quality approach to the IT development, which is essential to the scheme. I acknowledge the excellent collaboration with other Departments in the development of the new scheme and the innovative IT system. Although the delay is regrettable, we will have a significantly better system as a result. Members have identified the importance of that. At the same time, despite the delays with this system, and taking this legislation to invest in child care in this way for the first time, and because of the work of my officials, we were able to provide most of the subsidies and support for most families and children that we had anticipated in September and it is important to acknowledge that. The delay does not mean that everything is proceeding as is and I acknowledge the providers who have risen to the occasion to do that. We were able to provide an additional €18 million across the different child care provides to support their administration of that system. There is a great deal of paperwork and many providers believe that funding is not sufficient to recompense them for the work but, at the same time, they have done it and a similar system will be used next September. Uncertainty in that regard has been reduced. What is most important is that families are supported through the subsidisation and we are ensuring that is the case while we build a system that will ultimately be one of the best as we move towards investing in future generations.

A few Members asked whether FIS would be deducted in the calculation of the subsidy. This issue was raised at the joint committee and we examined it subsequently. We engaged closely with the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection. Having examined the interaction of the affordable child care scheme with FIS or the working family payment, including potential disincentive effects, both Departments recommended that FIS should not be deductible from income for the purposes of the affordable child care income assessment because allowing that deduction would raise issues of fairness and equity between working families in receipt of FIS or working family payment and those who are not, particularly those on the margins, and throughout the social welfare system. We can examine that issue further as we move forward with the legislation.

Questions were also raised about data protection. The scheme is being designed to meet all general data protection regulation requirements. A data protection strategy has been developed and, as part of that, a privacy impact assessment has been undertaken and the peer review group reviewing the business case for the scheme's new IT system has commended the Department's work in this regard.

Many Members raised the issue childminding, particularly in the context of choice. We are supporting choice, particularly for parents. The scheme is open to registered child care providers. Most Members will be aware that the group chaired by Childminding Ireland examined issues relating to quality assurance and regulation of the childminding sector. On 15 January, the group furnished me with a report making recommendations to ensure more childminders can become part of the system and be supported by the State's subsidisation process. I am meeting folks in the next ten days to discuss the findings and recommendations. I addressed the issue of choice in my opening contribution for parents and families who want children minded in the home, perhaps by virtue of a tax credit. A couple of Fianna Fáil Members raised that possibility. Our judgment is that to use that mechanism provides no form of quality control in respect of what happens with the care of the children and, therefore, it does not allow for sufficient responsibility and oversight by the State of its investment. That is not just our judgment, it is based on research in other countries as to why we make the choice regarding subsidisation in the way that we do. Again, however, we continue to the debate the matter.

I also want to offer a couple of comments on the issue of offering additional support to vulnerable children, because that point was raised by a number of Deputies, and particularly on the way in which that will happen. I reassure child care providers and those working with vulnerable groups in this regard that the Bill provides the Minister with the power to negotiate agreements with the five key statutory bodies in respect of the most vulnerable children and families. The detail of how the referral procedures will operate will be negotiated in these agreements. Clearly the detail of these agreements will be critical. While I recognise the value of the suggestion that county child care committees should have a role in providing additional support to vulnerable children, I regard it as critical that a national system is in place to ensure equity in the level of support for vulnerable children and families wherever they are. I intend to take steps to ensure that additional support for vulnerable groups will be easy to access in all cases where there is a clear identified need for it.

Earlier in the debate a Deputy asked a question about early childhood care and education, ECCE, eligibility for a child turning three in January 2019. A change to ECCE eligibility was announced in the last budget which aims to ensure that all children will be able to access a full two years, or 76 weeks, of the ECCE programme. Unlike the current arrangement, in which there is variation between families in terms of ECCE entitlement, there will now be equity. While some families with children whose birthdays are between January and March will see a reduction in eligibility from 88 to 75 weeks, they will have the same two years, or 76 weeks, eligibility as all other families. In addition, any such family will be able to continue receiving the universal child care subvention beyond the age of three until the child qualifies for ECCE. The affordable child care scheme will allow child care subsidies from the age of six months and it will wrap around ECCE supports and school.

A few Deputies made points in respect of commercial rates, which we also discussed to some degree in the committee. I am committed to the provision of affordable and accessible child care and I understand that the issue of commercial rates can be a barrier to achieving those goals. My Department will continue to explore the options available to secure an exemption or reduction in rates payable by private, for-profit providers.

Although we are really just beginning as we conclude this Stage and, I hope, move to the next Stage, I will conclude by saying that there is no question that we are now on a path to the establishment of the affordable child care scheme. This will be delivered. We are on a path that no one will, or would want to, stop. It is taking longer but, as I said earlier, most of the subsidies, which for the first time include a universal subsidy, are already being paid thanks to the providers and the parents. We are in the process of establishing a scheme that will make it easier for this Government and future Governments to invest in the child care sector and that will ultimately make the sector easier to administer so that it will be better for our providers, our parents and, of course, our children.

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