Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister for bringing forward this Bill. I know that she and the Department have put a significant amount of work into producing the Bill for the House. The legislation has already gone through the committee I have the privilege of chairing. I recognise each and every one of the members, past and present, and the former Chairman now Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, for their contributions to this process.

I will start by echoing some of the remarks made by Deputy Donnelly. I accept that the complexity of the child care schemes that are available is confusing. The Department and the Minister accept that. The approach being adopted by the Department on the Bill and the provisions contained within it will clearly simplify the process. There is, however, a number of outstanding aspects of child care in general that this Bill will not capture and it is only a certain percentage of the market which is covered under the provisions of this Bill. As has already been said, we must recognise the role childminders play in informal after-school environments whether that is the next door neighbour, the grandmother or whoever else looking after children of school-going age. Everybody in this Chamber is fully aware of the complexities and these are matters we must address.

The Minister outlined eloquently in her contribution, as did other Members who spoke, the difficulties we have with the low overall investment the State has traditionally put into child care and child care service providers in comparison to other countries within the OECD. The Minister outlined that we were bottom of the list and that we are aiming to be eleventh from the bottom or closer to the OECD average. It is commendable for us to be able to attempt to achieve that within the next two to three years.

It is very clear from the level of commitment in contributions made thus far in this Chamber and in the committee when we were discussing this matter with the Minister last week that there is a great deal of goodwill towards the Department of Children and Youth Affairs in terms of the budget it requires to reach the levels we are targeting. Therefore, I hope the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, and the Cabinet will take stock of that because it is a very important element of society that we provide additional educational provision to preschool children in order to improve their chances of receiving an enhanced education at an early age, which is incredibly beneficial to them in their later years within education.

I believe it was Deputy Coppinger who referenced the fact that the preschool level is incredibly important in the three levels of education. It is very clear to me and to members of the committee who referenced it that in order for us to achieve the educational standards and the level of workforce we require, it is appropriate that we begin at a very early age. That means upskilling and ensuring that the standards of the providers - whether they are in a crèche, Montessori facility or other child care setting - are at a level in which we as parents have trust and confidence in their ability to provide the level of child care that we aspire to provide in our own homes. I say that as a parent. That requires significant investment.

The Bill is the commencement of the process of improving an income-based targeted scheme which will no doubt assist hundreds of thousands of parents across the State. As a representative of the community in the State with the youngest age demographic, north Dublin and Fingal in particular have acute problems and challenges that require significant Government investment and an increase in the number of child care providers right across the board from preschool right through to early teens in terms of after-school facilities. I believe the Bill is a great stride in the right direction.

Last September, when the Minister announced the affordable child care scheme, the Government introduced an important support for parents and families making child care more affordable. I intended to go through the various measures in more detail but because Deputy Neville was so eloquent in his contribution in that regard, I will not go over that ground other than to say significant steps have been taken in the right direction. The Bill signifies one of those important steps in ensuring children and their families have access to high quality affordable services. In particular, I commend the fact that this Bill will work to ensure that those families and children who are most in need of support receive the support they require.

For too long, as has been said numerous times, child care has been a second mortgage. It takes up almost 40% of the outgoing income of the average family and it is a very significant burden. I The Bill is vital in making extortionate child care costs become a thing of the past as Ireland moves towards establishing a scheme which is in line with international best practice and endeavours to ensure that children receive the greatest possible benefit in their early years education and care.

In discussing the Bill, it is vital that we develop cross-departmental ICT systems, on which the Minister went into great detail with the committee last week in terms of the various reasons that it is delayed. While I and others, including the Minister, are disappointed at the delay, given the experience we had in the past with ICT problems it is most appropriate that we take the time to get it right because the worst thing that we could possibly do is go into a statutory tender process with a statutory time limit and statutory periods of consideration and make the wrong decision. It cost the State hundreds of millions of euro in the past and I have no desire to see that happen again, and not on such an important product that I hope will be produced by whoever wins the tender.

It is important that we use the ICT system to improve our position among OECD countries in terms of the overall amount we invest as a percentage of GDP. Without the required ICT infrastructure, it would simply not be possible to ensure the targeted supports under the affordable child care scheme reach every single family and support every single child who qualifies for them. As such, I am pleased that the Minister has made this a priority within her Department. I also note the Minister's remarks in that regard when she appeared before the committee last week.

I echo Deputy Donnelly's view that there is a point at which the State does not need to intervene in attempting to reduce child care costs. Unlike child benefit, which is universal, those above a certain threshold should possibly be discounted. That perhaps is a consideration at a particular level because I appreciate there will always be people who have extraordinarily high financial burdens such as mortgages as a result of the Celtic tiger and their income might in fact have only just met their outgoings. There will always be considerations in that regard but it is a conversation worth having.

In regard to the ICT system, it is positive that a full and open tender process will take place because I would hate for us as a State to get it wrong. That said, it is a bit disappointing for all of us within this sphere that we are now facing at least another year or year and a half before we get to implement or test the system that emerges from the tendering process. Nevertheless, there are a greater number of positives in the Bill, particularly in terms of the establishment of an independent appeals procedure for decisions under the scheme, measures to ensure the effective use of public money and the fact that it aims to empower parents and guardians to participate in the labour market and through both this and supporting quality child care subsequently reduce child poverty.

I wish to reference section 17. I recall that some years ago during the Thirty-first Dáil issues arose in respect of the Social Welfare Act. The Act set out certain provisions that ultimately meant the Department of Social Protection, as it was at the time, was unable to consider certain applicants who were clearly in need of support. Unfortunately, the Act precluded them from being considered for direct intervention. I appeal to the Minister and the Department to look carefully at section 17 with regard to the possibility that the provision might unintentionally exclude individuals who may be in need of financial support from the State. At this early stage during the Second Stage debate we have plenty of time to consider the matter.

Correspondence from Barnardo's has been circulated to most members of the Joint Committee on Children and Youth Affairs as well as the Minister. I believe the correspondence warrants consideration. Section 7(1)(a) provides for eligibility of applications for supports under the scheme and refers to where "the person or his or her partner is a parent of the child". This could be simply expanded to include "or guardian" and I believe that would better provide for the intention of the Bill. Barnardo's has suggested the use of phraseology along the lines of "the person or his or her partner is a parent or guardian of the child". Although that is a matter for Committee Stage, it is worth mentioning at this point that some helpful contributions have been made by stakeholders.

Section 14 provides for additional support for vulnerable children. This section along with Schedule 2 provides for the bodies that will have authority to authorise additional supports in certain circumstances. In particular, the Child and Family Agency will have the ability to authorise additional payments in cases where the child is not receiving adequate care and attention. The concern is that in order for the Child and Family Agency to use this power, it is essentially implied that some form of parental failure must have taken place with regard to the child in care. There is, therefore, a burden of proof that the Child and Family Agency would be required to meet to ensure some of our most vulnerable children and families receive the level of support they require. Would it not be better for the Minister to frame the section in a more positive light? Could she not empower the Child and Family Agency to be proactive in authorising additional supports in cases where the agency identifies a child as being in need of additional care or protection?

Another concern brought to my attention relates to the provision of a step-down approach for families whereby they could retain the supports they are to receive for the duration of the year in which the Tusla support expires. The idea is that the family would not have to reapply to receive support where those involved meet other eligibility criteria. That is worth mentioning at this point.

Section 26 provides for families to move from current schemes to supports under the affordable child care scheme and includes the phased transition as they move from their current level of supports to those offered by the scheme. The section would allow those families to better adapt to these changes. I am pleased that organisations such as Barnardo's are largely supportive of the Bill in this regard.

I encourage the Minister to engage with her colleagues in government, and the Minister for Education and Skills in particular, to explore the possibility of utilising school buildings where it is feasible for the provision of after-hours care, as provided in several facilities throughout the State. This initiative has received great support from my Fine Gael colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, in Cork. We believe it would provide better supports for parents who wish to return to work. I visited one such company last week in Donabate called Sherpa Kids. I was impressed with the service the company was providing. It is operating with the support of the Department of Children and Youth Affairs by way of adaptation grants for the room it is using. We could see the roll out of such schemes with supports from the Department in other facilities. Indeed, the thinking behind this project is an essential component in providing the sort of service that parents really need. At the end of school, a private provider utilises a classroom or large hall, in the case of the particular school I visited. Someone collects the children as normal inside the gate rather than outside and brings them back to the classroom. Sherpa Kids provides for them during the course of the day. There is a drop-in and take-out service throughout the course of the day. Once the company has space, few parents are refused.

We really need to roll out this model throughout the State. I understand a similar project was piloted in Cork a year ago or thereabouts and that is why I mentioned my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Daly. Anyway, it is important for us to have a conversation. It is a pity the Irish Primary Principals Network meeting was last week as I was going to suggest to the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Bruton, that he would have a conversation with the principals. Having spoken to four such principals in the past month, I sense some reluctance on their part to entertain the use of school buildings. I do not think that is right. As long as the room is suitable and cleaned afterwards, there is no particular difficulty.

We are talking about schools receiving an income. It might be non-commercial rent, but it is still moneys that the school could put into the provision of education for the students there during the course of the school day. We need to go outside the box and outside our comfort zone and perhaps bring school boards of management with us. It is incumbent on us as political leaders throughout the country to show how good this service can be for communities and parents. Ultimately, the boards of management are populated by people within the community. If the people in the community see the importance of these initiatives, then I imagine the boards of management would catch on to it.

Anyway, it is important for us to be able to provide the standard of care that is being provided. We must be assured of the environment in which the children are being cared for. We need to ensure that the level of pay, which has been mentioned time and again, in this sector improves along with the standards that we are endeavouring to improve. Schools can benefit greatly from the investment they would receive from the non-commercial rent generated.

I have the privilege of representing the community in Fingal, which has one of the youngest and fastest-growing demographics in the State. As such, there is a great need and large demand for child care places throughout my constituency. I call on the Minister to examine the possibility of supporting the use of school buildings where possible outside of school hours to enhance the availability of child care service providers throughout the State.

The Minister referred to regulation during her contribution at the commencement of the debate. The introduction of standards for after school child care services is a key element of the overall part of this entire debate. Of course there will be reluctance to look at ratios of teachers to children, for example. However, what we really need to do is supplement other areas of child care with direct investment from the State. I hope we will stabilise income levels and thus remove some of the barriers to parents making the decision to go back to work. As Deputy Donnelly outlined earlier, the level of income required to keep more than one child in child care is crippling.

I raised the matter of rates at committee last week. It is an important aspect for the thousands of child care providers in the State. Most, if not all, are paying commercial rates. This is something we need to look at as part of the overall investment in family life by the State. It is clear that those in the industry make little money out of it. The rates of pay are low and the operators do not appear to be making much out of it. I encourage the Minister to discuss some sort of intervention. Clearly rates vary from county to county. At the same time, we can perhaps look at the particular difficulties in urban environments throughout the country.

As indicated, geographically based targets are worth considering given that the costs of child care vary dramatically between Malahide, Mullingar and elsewhere.

I am not particularly inclined either way on the question as to whether the public service should become involved in the provision of child care. The State already provides child care through the community child care schemes. If the service is of a sufficiently high standard - the level of State investment will be uniform in any case - I have no particular difficulty with either the public or private route. As standards rise, however, I believe there will be no difference between the State and a private operator providing child care services. We have learned from experience that there are often disparities in the cost base for State versus private services. This should probably be considered in the context of ever-increasing demand on the fixed pot of money available to the Department.

I commend the Minister and thank her and her officials for the considerable efforts they have made in recent months on producing this Bill.

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