Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

Ar an gcéad dul síos, tacaím leis an mBille seo. Is dóigh liom go bhfuil luach ann agus go ndéanfaidh sé an-difríocht. Is dóigh liom go mbeidh luach ann ó thaobh costais de. Tá feabhas le déanamh air, cinnte, agus tá tuilleadh le déanamh ach d'fhormhór is rud maith é.

I welcome the Bill and commend the Minister for its introduction. It is a step forward. There is no doubt that child care provision is one of the most significant issues we face and that while the Bill represents progress, we are starting at the bottom of the mountain in that regard. The issue has been neglected for far too long. Child care costs in Ireland are among the highest in the OECD and Deputy Denise Mitchell is correct that for many, particular those living in large urban centres, they are equivalent to a second mortgage. As the Minister identified, they are a disincentive to people returning to work and also dictate decisions on where people live, which is wrong. We need to fix this, both from the point of view of what is good for the economy and investment but also, more importantly, for society.

Deputy Denise Mitchell raised the issue of childminders. There is no sense in subsidising people who are working without regulation or oversight. Clearly, standards are needed, but a sensible approach needs to be applied. We need to engage with childminders and work towards a system where it will be possible to regulate them and provide subsidies. Regulations need to be sensible and proportionate. Other countries such as Scotland have successfully encouraged substantial numbers of childminders into the regulated system and are subsidising them. That is important because this model is much more suitable for many parents, as it allows for greater flexibility and acts in the interests of childminders and those availing of the service. The service must be regulated because we cannot have poor standards or people being paid less than what is legal and right.

The cost of child care is raised with me as an issue on a regular basis in Cork. People outline what it is costing families on top of their mortgage, rent, insurance costs and so on. I am sure the Minister also comes across this, but, fundamentally, the issue is broader than that and related to early years education. It is not only about cost. We should view child care as integral to the education system. When the issue is debated, the debate should not revolve around the savings that could accrue to families, although that is important, as we should always be conscious of the need to maintain and improve standards, to which education is central. It is related, in turn, to sustainability.

I have raised this point with the Minister before. I hope it will be further addressed on Committee Stage. There are many community child care providers, many of which were among the first places to provide child care in this country. Some of the long established community development projects and family resource centres have provided child care for 20, 30 or 40 years. Some of them are quite challenged at the moment, particularly in respect of the issue of the low staff to child ratios which exist for baby rooms which we have discussed before. The changes in that regard were in many respects sensible and logical but they need to be supported with additional investment.

The suggestion of an enhanced subsidy has been made previously. That is certainly worthy of consideration. I know the Minister has considered the idea of a DEIS-type scheme, as some people have put it. There is some merit in that. Personally I would not favour attaching any such scheme to catchment areas as closely as the DEIS scheme is attached because the people who take up places in a child care facility can live in an area radically different from that in which the facility is located, much more so than in the case of schools. It is the nature of such things that people are more likely to travel to them. Regardless of the model chosen there needs to be an enhanced subsidy for child care providers and particularly for community child care providers in disadvantaged communities in recognition of the additional needs and challenges that exist in those communities and of the role they play and the value they have.

Another element of sustainability is obviously the issue of pay. All Deputies who have spoken so far have touched on it. It is a long standing issue and one on which the child care workers' representatives have been vocal for some time. It is not acceptable that people working in the sector, with the qualifications they have achieved and the time they have invested in their work and profession, are being paid what they are. Some people are earning barely more than minimum wage, approximately €10.30 to €10.60 an hour. Indeed managers are quite often not on a much higher rate. It is a sector in which the difference between what workers are paid and what managers are paid is often quite meagre. That is very often due to the tight margins. This clearly needs to be addressed. I spoke about quality earlier. We cannot possibly retain people who are committed, educated and well-trained in the sector unless they are properly rewarded, recognised and paid.

The issue of organising has been raised, and rightly so. It is important that child care workers organise and join a union. I welcome that and I commend SIPTU, IMPACT and the Association of Childcare Professionals for the work that they have done in that regard. However, we should not have to wait for the density of workers in the sector to reach a certain point before we deal with this. It is a matter for the Department. It may not be the employer in the vast majority of cases but it is the Department that decided on the model and estimated how much it would be required to pay child care workers under this scheme and the early childhood care and education, ECCE, scheme. That calculation-----

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