Frank O'Rourke (Kildare North, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the opportunity to speak on what is a difficult, emotive and personal issue for everyone, both in this Chamber and outside. I speak on the issue as both a representative of a number of different views on the part of my constituents and as a parent, husband, son and brother. Where a number of different views are articulated, we get a good cross-section of people's opinions on this sensitive issue. It is important that we have mutual respect for each other's opposing views. While I may not agree with or accept it, I respect everyone's opinion on this and every issue. I hope the same respect will be afforded to me here this evening.

In this debate, it is also important that we reflect on, remember and consider carefully the mother and the unborn baby. In many contributions in this House, the unborn baby was not spoken about as much as it should be. I think that is a mistake because it is real and it needs that level of respect and discussion. There is another dimension, which is the family unit. In some cases, a father or a husband will be involved as well and it is important that all those set ups are encompassed in the discussion. It is also important to remember that there are mothers listening to this debate who have had terminations for one reason or another. We do not want to cause them any further anguish, upset or annoyance during this debate. We must be respectful and mindful of that also.

It is difficult for Members, as legislators, and those outside the House to have a proper debate on the proposed change to the Constitution in the absence of a proposal. In essence, we are talking in a vacuum because we do not have the proper information in front of us. To some degree, that gives an idea of the complexities involved in the issue. Everyone is struggling with what are the appropriate proposals to be considered. It is, therefore, difficult to discuss the detail of a referendum when we do not know what we are actually discussing. We must also remember that the current amendment, protecting the life of the unborn, has served the State well. It has served to protect the life of the unborn very well in the past and now.

I am not so sure of the legitimacy of the term "fatal foetal abnormality" and whether it is just a foetal abnormality. That is, I suppose, for another day and for others to discuss. I have engaged with families that have made it their business to see me at my weekly clinics, at my office or outside of that. They have made contact with me in recent weeks and months and have told me numerous stories. These are stories that we have all heard. However, in some cases, the medical advice given to them years ago was that the baby would not survive outside the mother's womb. If termination had been available at the time, the baby might well have been terminated. However, that was not an option available to them in Ireland, thankfully, and it was not an option that was sought. As a result, the baby was born and has matured to adulthood. As a family unit, they have enjoyed and still enjoy their time with that person despite being given such bleak, sad and bad news following scans during the pregnancy. This is feedback from families, mothers and fathers who have experienced this situation. The undercurrent in their message is that medical professionals are human and sometimes they, like everyone else, can get it wrong. That is hugely important to bear in mind. As a result of taking the right decision, lots of people have enjoyed a fulfilling life to the best of their ability, whatever that may be. No one should deprive any individual of that right. It is important that the correct supports and services be in place for both the mother and the family unit should they get such bad news when they attend for the different scans during pregnancy. If we are honest, those services do not exist properly at the moment. The supports are not there. This needs to be considered further but I will return to it later.

It is also important that we are not selective when quoting medical professionals. I have heard medical professionals quoted quite a lot on both sides of the debate. Yet, when these medical professionals have made recommendations on other important health issues, by and large they have been ignored or not taken on board. I met a senior surgeon a year ago. He was looking for €4 million investment in Tallaght hospital to allow patients to be treated properly. At the moment, they are regarded as being critical. This would allow them to operate normally on a daily basis. They are waiting two years as critical patients for surgery. Those senior surgeons and consultants have advocated to Government on that investment, but it has not happened. Then there is the other side of the coin which we heard earlier today. Other medical professionals came out and advocated strongly in respect of the children's hospital and they would say that, by and large, they were ignored. We must be measured in our approach and our discussion. We must also be measured when we are quoting professionals. I believe in quoting them but they should be quoted honestly, fairly and consistently. People should not be opportunistic or selective. The concern is that we are selectively quoting parts to suit an argument but this is too sensitive an issue to do that.

Where a pregnancy is ended and a baby aborted under the heading "fatal foetal abnormality", what are we trying to achieve? Are we looking for something perfect or ideal that we know will never exist? We must realise and understand that everyone has a right to exist in society irrespective of who they are. I firmly believe that it is not about anyone's disability but everyone's ability. We must put that centre stage. Irrespective of the circumstances into which a person is born, it is important that the services, supports and assistance are there. The love of the family unit and surrounding people will be there. Everyone can have a fulfilling and enjoyable life. That is what is important and it is incumbent on us to ensure that that right remains.

Others issues discussed include rape and incest. These are terrible, awful and inhumane acts to attempt to inflict on any woman. Those found guilty of such acts should get the toughest sentence possible. The acts in question are wrong. I have listened to women who have attended Leinster House to make presentations and to women outside it who have contacted me and sought meetings.

I can only repeat what they are saying to me, which was that while a terrible act was brought upon them, having gone through an abortion was equally difficult for them to deal with it. The termination was not, in essence, any solution for them as they ended up with two significant traumas to deal with in life. One was the terrible, inhumane act that was the rape or incest, which nobody would attempt to condone, and the other was the aborting of the baby. We must remember that in this difficult discussion, the baby who is terminated or who somebody is contemplating terminating, has no say in it. The child, the mother and the family unit, if it happens to the mother there, should get the relevant supports and the services should be provided to allow the child to be born. The child might have been conceived in a way it would not want to be but it had no control over that and it deserves a right to play a role in society. We must be conscious of and reflect on this point.

We all recognise that services and supports are not adequate at present for the mother, the unborn baby or the family unit. I will not play politics on any issue, as I believe in trying to progress things to get positive outcomes, but adequate services are not available at present. They are lacking in number of different areas of the health service, some of which I discussed in a Topical Issue debate with the Minister. The people to whom I have spoken say it is not a case of funding but delivery on the ground. We must be humane and compassionate in this regard and must ensure the appropriate services are put in place to help families, particularly mothers, in these dreadfully difficult circumstances and to assist them. This, in turn, will assist the unborn baby. That baby has a right and we must speak up on its behalf.

It will come as no surprise to Members that I confirm I am absolutely pro-life. This is my own personal view and that of those people I represent to my constituency. I acknowledge and respect that my colleague who is present and others in my constituency have different views but based on those people who have contacted my office by telephone, text, Facebook or email, three out of four have asked me to advocate on a pro-life basis. It is hugely important that we protect the life of the unborn in the proposals that are put forward in the time ahead of us.

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