Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

With the permission of the House, I will share time with Deputy Eamon Ryan.

I am glad to have the opportunity to speak about the report of the committee and take the opportunity to commend it for the work it has done. When the former Taoiseach, Deputy Enda Kenny, proposed the establishment of a citizens' assembly and an Oireachtas committee, some were quite sceptical about that process. However, if we have learne anything in this country, it is that all of the issues around abortion are complex. There is a wide range of views and a whole load of factors that come into play in dealing with the issue. For that reason, it is not something about which someone can merely talk off the top of his or her head or on which he or she can come to a decision without being informed. There are many legal and medical aspects with which people need to familiarise themselves and they need to tease out and look at what they believe is the best way to address the problem, whether it be through legislation or the holding of a referendum to amend the Constitution. It requires a lot of teasing out and the taking of expert advice. That is what happened at the Citizens' Assembly. People may complain about the counties from which its members were drawn or whateverelse, but, in the main, it was seen as a fair and objective process. It drew together 100 citizens who took the time and devoted themselves to engaging on the issue. It was a worthwhile process.

The Citizens' Assembly was followed in a similar vein by the Joint Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution. I commend all of its members on volunteering and putting time into researching, listening and learning about the many aspects of the abortion issue.

I think all of them made a sincere and genuine effort to grapple with the issue. They came forward finally, in the relatively tight timescale allocated to them, with a comprehensive report on the matter, and we should all thank the committee and be grateful to its members for the efforts they made.

Regarding the approach that was taken, I had quite a similar experience in the Committee on the Future of Healthcare, whereby members came in from diverse political positions, listened to the experts and the evidence-based information that was given to them and came to conclusions. The same kind of approach was taken by the Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution, whereby people engaged, listened to experts and to presentations on the ways in which this issue is dealt with in other countries, got legal and medical advice, grappled with the topics and all the aspects of the issue and came up with what I believe is a balanced and comprehensive report. We owe them our gratitude for having put in that work.

We now need clarification on a number of different aspects of the report. One of the key aspects that is emerging at present is the question of the approach to be taken as to whether to repeal or replace. I think this is a matter of concern to many of us because it is important not only that we move forward as quickly as possible and have the referendum, but also that there not be any ambiguity or uncertainty surrounding the matter. There are conflicting messages coming across as to the best approach to take. We know that the Citizens' Assembly, for example, received legal advice that the best approach would be to replace, that is, to state in the Constitution that responsibility and power to legislate in the area of abortion would pass to the Oireachtas. That was surprising at the time but that was the legal advice. Then we heard that the advice given to the Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution contradicted that advice. We did not have the benefit of being able to read or listen to that advice because it was provided in private, but it raised the contrary argument. Members of the committee have suggested that the overwhelming weight of the advice they received was that inserting a new clause requiring the Oireachtas to legislate would be highly unusual and could actually represent a violation of the separation of powers. That is a worrying aspect. However, then we heard from Government that the Attorney General advised that it would be better to have a provision in the Constitution.

The last thing we want is to go through a referendum and then for Supreme Court cases to be taken challenging the result of it, dragging out the matter indefinitely, so we need clarity at this point. There is conflicting legal advice, and we all deserve - the public deserves - to have early clarification on that. I call on the Government to publish the Attorney General's advice. I know it is not general practice to do so, but it is very important in this case that that advice is published and that a decision is taken in this House, with the benefit of that advice, on the most expeditious and soundest way forward regarding a referendum. There would be a precedent in this regard because in 1983 the then Taoiseach, Garret FitzGerald, published the advice of the Attorney General. We know it was not followed at the time and we have had endless problems because of that, but that is the precedent that was set. Given we are discussing the same issue and everybody wants to avoid legal uncertainty, I call on the Government to make that advice available to the House.

Some people have difficulty with the question of the 12 week limit and the availability of abortion under a doctor's direction in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. Again, if one considers the time and effort that went into this at the committee, it is quite understandable why it came to this conclusion. I think the vast majority of people in this country would say that in cases of rape or incest, no one has the right to insist that a woman who has suffered from either of those awful experiences should be prevented from taking whatever action she believes is right as to whether to terminate that resulting pregnancy, and there is no way of legislating for that. The only way one can provide for people in those appalling situations is to have a provision whereby abortion would be available up to a certain time limit, and I think that was very much a factor in the committee's recommendations.

Another issue which was a new phenomenon that many people had not been aware of is that in recent times there has been very wide use of the abortion pill. We are not talking about surgical abortion in many cases now but rather a person taking a pill, ideally on prescription from a doctor, at home and terminating a pregnancy in that way. Unfortunately, that is not an option for Irish women because of the eighth amendment. It blocks that option. The present situation we have of increasing numbers of Irish women ordering the abortion pill over the Internet is highly unsatisfactory and dangerous. All these treatments should be provided under a doctor's direction, and the only way that can be done satisfactorily at present is to ensure access in those first 12 weeks.

This must be seen in a wider context. We need much better emphasis on the questions of sex education and access to contraception, including emergency contraception. It is crazy that some of our contraceptive methods are subject to VAT. Some are quite expensive for younger people, and that must be addressed. We also need to look at this in the context of having proper sex education in our schools. We are still a long way from all our young people being taught about having healthy and responsible attitudes to sex. The other thing is to see all this in the context of a modern maternal health care system, and again, we are some way from that. For example, no scans are available or recommended as part of the maternity strategy within the first trimester.

There are many different aspects to this issue. We must ensure balance but, ultimately, I very much support the recommendations of the committee, and the Social Democrats will campaign strongly for repeal of the eighth.

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