Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

They listened to the evidence from those who brought forward medical expertise, as well as lived experience. I know this was particularly difficult for many people. I thank the committee for its work and its recommendations. I also thank the many women who for years have campaigned on this issue and have been a strong voice on it which has finally been heard.

This is one of the most important issues on which I will have an opportunity to engage with my colleagues in this Chamber.

I hope I will also have the opportunity to make a profound difference to many people's lives throughout my political career, however long or short that might be. My personal view is that the eighth amendment has no place in the Constitution and it should never have been put into it. I have listened to many committees and to much of the legal expertise but we do not even have to listen to legal expertise; we just have to read what was said in 1983 by the then Attorney General, Peter Sutherland. He may have had his own views and opinions but he said clearly at the time that the wording was ambiguous, unsatisfactory and would lead inevitably to confusion and uncertainty. He went on to say that it could be argued that neither a fertilised ovum, a fertilised and implanted ovum, an embryo or even a foetus prior to the time when it is independently viable, that is, up to 25 weeks, would come within this definition. He talked about disciplines of medicine, philosophy and theology all being able to arrive at any conclusion and that the consequences were that there could be no constitutional prohibition on abortion prior to this stage in pregnancy. It was said in 1983 that this was not constitutional and should not be put into the Constitution in the first place. I believe that it needs to be removed. It is on those grounds that I support the recommendations made by the all-party Oireachtas joint committee. I support the recommendations to repeal simpliciterand the recommendations that it should be unlimited up to 12 weeks.

My own view, and it always has been for what it is worth, is that I should not, nor should any woman, have the right to tell any other woman that she should carry a child for nine months and give birth to that child. I should not have the right to tell any woman what she should do with her own body or to interfere with a woman's bodily integrity or her right to choose, for her own health or personal reasons. I do not believe that anybody, male or female, has the right to tell me what I should do with my body either. That is my personal view and belief. I know many people in this Chamber share that view and belief and that others have a different view and belief. I respect that and think the debate in the Chamber so far has been respectful of all people's views. I see no reason we cannot continue in that respectful manner outside of the Chamber.

In saying that, while we can debate each other's views and opinions, what we cannot debate or what we can deviate from is the reality and the facts. The Minister, Deputy Harris, outlined it perfectly yesterday. He outlined the number of people within each county. The overall figure is that 170,000 Irish women have had abortions since the 1980s. Those are people's sisters, mothers, aunts, cousins and friends whose rights do not exist under our Constitution, and that cannot continue. If one breaks that down even further, while I know there are different, more conservative figures, the figures the committee has show that 4,000 Irish women travel abroad every year with their spouse, partner, friend, or family member, or alone, for a termination and then come home. If something goes wrong, they do not have proper medical support to back them up.

I will always remember a story told by my sister. She was in a bed in an emergency department and there were curtains around the bed. There were people in beds either side of her and she could hear what was happening. There was a woman in one of the beds next to her who would not explain what was wrong with her. The doctors were trying to find out what had happened. Eventually, after a number of hours, she explained that she had had a termination. That woman was afraid to say that she had a termination for fear of what would happen, that the gardaí would be called, that there would be repercussions or that the doctors would not help her. That cannot be allowed to continue. Similarly, we hear discussions about the abortion pill. Anywhere from 1,100 to 1,800 people access this. It is not legal in this country but it is safe. However, for women who have difficulties, they have that same difficulty where they do not want to go to a doctor or seek help for fear that they would be reprimanded. It leaves us where we are today.

We have to ask the question, what do we do? Do we continue to do what we have always done in this country? I do not need to get into the Kerry babies case or any other cases because they have been mentioned. It is not that they are not important. They are important but we know what happened in the past and we have to ask ourselves whether we want to allow that to continue. Do we allow ourselves to look the other way and pretend that those women do not exist or do we, for the first time as legislators, give women the choice and opportunity to make the decision that is right for them? Like so many in this Chamber, I will be voting to repeal the eighth amendment and I will vote in support of the recommendations.

To touch on the recommendations briefly, I do not think there is any other way but repeal simpliciter. Article 40.3.3° does not belong in the Constitution. It needs to be taken out of it and we need to be able to legislate for it. On unlimited access up to 12 weeks and the idea that we could legislate for rape, incest or any other kind of issue, experts addressed that in the committee. Dr. David Kenny said it would be unworkable and Dr. Peter Boylan said that there is no diagnostic test to confirm rape and that we already disempower people who are already disempowered, traumatised and, in many cases, will never speak about what they have been traumatised by. We cannot legislate for it, given that timeframe. Every woman needs to be given the right to make her own choice irrespective of what has happened to them. Finally, there are recommendations about sexual education and making contraception more freely available to those who need it. I agree with that. We need to support it wholeheartedly. We have to ask ourselves whether we want to continue to look the other way and pretend that abortion is not happening, putting women's lives at risk and ensuring they do not have the same rights as every other person in the country. I do not think we can do that any more. We have to trust women to make decisions that are right for them.

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