Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent) | Oireachtas source

As Deputy Daly said, no one in here condones people who drink and drive and our hearts go out to people who have lost family members as a result of drink-driving. As legislators, however, we have to ask if our legislation has worked for people who are three or four times over the limit, as is the case in 93% of those caught in cases where people have been killed. The answer, realistically, is "no".

Over Christmas I heard comments linked with the Minister to the effect that Deputies were filibustering and holding up legislation that would have saved people's lives. There is a process in the Dáil whereby all elected Deputies have a right to represent their views and the views of those who went to the ballot box and voted for them. There is a committee system and there are Senators who also have a right to represent their views, so even if the Bill had gone through the Dáil on the day before Christmas it would still have had hurdles to overcome. Levelling such accusations at Deputies is not a good idea. Nobody condones someone who drives having drunk way over the limit but we have to ensure we recognise the severity of any crime which has taken place. With this Bill, however, we are deciding to put people with between 50 mg and 80 mg of alcohol in their blood off the road.

I come from and understand rural Ireland. We do not have the Luas, Dublin Bus or the DART running until midnight so that we could have a social drink and get home by public transport. People who live in rural areas are and will continue to be treated in a disproportionate way, not only in this area but in respect of many other issues. If we want to apportion blame for the loss of lives we have to look at the history of Governments down through the years.

We have seen report after report stating that 14% of the roads are not fit to travel on and have caused accidents. Will anything be done about that or will we hear of that coming out? No, for the simple reason that it costs money. The traffic corps came up in the programme for Government. We have heard announcement after announcement that it was going up to a higher level than was the case going back the years. Unfortunately, that has never been done. No matter what legislation is in place, unless we have feet on the street we will never solve it. Of course, that costs money and the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, might not like opening the purse strings. It is easier to put in legislation that has a disproportionate effect in rural parts of Ireland.

I heard so-called solutions coming from the Government just before Christmas, when it was trying to soften its own Deputies, to the effect that we would get 35 buses. When people go to a pub for a night out - down the country anyhow, they might do it differently in Dublin - they go between the hours of 9 p.m. and 12 midnight. If the 35 buses were driving at their maximum speed without picking up anyone, for three hours at night without going up a by-road or a back road, for those three hours all 35 would be needed in County Galway alone, where there are 5,000 km of road. If we divide that by the number of buses, without the drivers even pulling up to bring anyone, they would not even cover County Galway. It is a red herring trying to soften the blow and telling people the Government is going to do something down the way.

Unfortunately, in 63% of accidents in which people have lost their lives there is basically no drink and no real answers. We have to be mindful of statistics. My understanding is that the statistics we have are based on the years 2008 to 2012. With the best will in the world for the top echelons of the Garda Síochána, some of the statistics we have got over the past year or two have not been what I would call very accurate.

We have an organisation called the Road Safety Authority, RSA. I sat on the transport committee of the previous Dáil and the RSA appeared before it. We decided that we would bring up ways of trying to save lives and to help young people who are scourged with the cost of insurance through no fault of their own. I am fairly familiar with lorries. It is possible to put a limiter into a lorry, which no doubt can be done with cars. It is actually easier now because they can be programmed on the computer system. I put it forward that we would give every young person insurance, the same as me or anybody else who has been driving for a good few years with a clean licence, providing they were willing to put in such a limiter until they were 23, 24 or 25. In fairness, some of them are very good drivers. Let us not tar all of them with the one brush. Was it done? No, because it was not attractive to do. If we found a solution to bring down insurance, it would not fit and the insurance companies would probably give us the two fingers anyhow. All they are interested in is making sure these youngsters are paying premium rates.

I also see this new thing coming in regarding the learner drivers. While we are great at bringing in legislation, we are not that fond of bringing in solutions. I have checked and am correct that there are waiting lists of up to six months in some places for doing a driving test. All I hear is that it will be sorted but that is the reality on the ground. While the Minister might be used to his Luas and his DART and all his different public transport methods, in rural parts of Ireland, especially on family farms where families are living on an income of €15,000 to €18,000, where families try to give the next generation a chance of going to college, they often cannot afford the exorbitant rates in the likes of Dublin, Limerick, Cork and Galway where the colleges are situated. Those people have bought cars for their youngsters but now they will have to sit in the cars with them, go to college and come back again.

Why do we not bring in a solution in which we put a place in every county like Mondello Park, where people could do an intensive two, three or four days - whatever it takes - or two weekends? There would be someone there to provide a certificate stating that while the person has a learner permit, he or she has gone through a certain amount of intensive training and is fit to drive on the road until he or she gets to do the test, given the current waiting lists. However, as that probably would be using our heads and making it a bit easier for people, the answer is "no". Given the disproportionate lack of public transport, some of those 17 or 18 year-olds will be deprived of college because of this as unfortunately, their parents will not be able to afford what is needed.

It is well known - this is not just during the Minister's tenure but in the past four, five, six or seven years - that the roads budget is down 40% from what is was in 2008 in certain counties. If it is that much down, one definitely will not have the quality of roads that is required. The Minister sat within at the programme for Government discussions. One of the first things that was put in it was that the west of Ireland would be brought in for TEN-T funding. The Minister's comrade, Deputy Enda Kenny, was to the fore in that regard along with myself. The present Taoiseach, however, decided he would take the west of Ireland out of it and make sure that the likes of Foynes and other areas like Cork and Dublin were tied in, while the whole of the Border, midlands and western region was taken out of it. That was one of the first things written into the programme for Government in order that we would get better quality roads. Was it done? Was it looked at? Was anything even stirred in it? When I last checked before Christmas, the answer was "no".

Then we talk about trying to save lives. I ask myself what type of a society we are becoming. I saw a 90 year-old man who went to the pub every night for two glasses of beer. With the talk and the fear that exists about all this, unfortunately the gentleman has become a prisoner within his own home. We talk about rural isolation. Whether it is a cup of tea, a glass of beer or Guinness or a mineral, we must understand that bit of communication is important to many people, especially in the west where there is a large percentage of elderly people who would like to go out for a glass or two.

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There is a fear of even going out on the road. That is what the Bill is doing in terms of drink-driving legislation.

I know our hearts have to go out to all of the families who have lost people and we have to remember them. What will solve the problem of the driver who is three, four or five times over the limit? What will stop people doing that?

There is another side to this issue. Every family, including mine, has somebody belonging to them who has a problem with drink. Solving that problem and turning a new leave over in a book will help the family and the person concerned. We need to consider all of the different angles in trying to resolve this issue. Everyone wants safe roads. That is undeniable. Everyone wants to make sure that people are not killed. A person walking down a road who has drink on him or her is entered into the statistics as a drink-driving accident, but it is not determined whether the person walking on a road or the driver had been drinking. It is simply recorded as a road traffic accident where drink was involved.

Speed is a major problem. Before the Minister goes forward with legislation, he needs to bring in solutions. Unfortunately, down through the years Governments have been very good at introducing legislation and think it will solve everything. We can have all of the legislation in the world from every Department, but unfortunately that does not work.

County councils are doing their best with the funds they have. The Minister will make announcements in the coming months. Whether the Minister for Finance and Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, likes it, the Minister, Deputy Ross, needs to get a budget which will enable infrastructure to be put in place.

We have many problems in rural parts of Ireland. It is one of the best places one could live. Knowingly or unknowingly, however, Departments seem hellbent on making sure that they try to drive people away from rural Ireland. The national planning framework does not want to allow one-off housing in rural parts of Ireland.

We also have to be mindful of people who may go out at night with their partners and families and have a few drinks. The following morning they are lambs to the slaughter because they run into a checkpoint. The problem is that they do not know whether they are over the limit if they had a few drinks night before.

The Minister should rethink the Bill because it is punitive for rural Ireland. The Minister is sounding the final death knell for rural pubs which have struggled for the past number of years. It will finish off the sector. Is that a legacy the he wants? Other solutions have been given to the RSA. Funnily enough, it seems hellbent on picking up on this aspect.

People who passed their tests years ago have been told that because records are not available due to the fact that everything was burned in 1990, they have to prove something which cannot be proven. People cannot pull trailers even though they have been doing so for the past 20 years. That is the type of thing that is happening.

Lorry owners have submitted their lorries for testing. It cost one man €750 because the test was due. He booked his lorry in and there were a few small issues. He had to transport a load of cattle but the lorry was taken from him. That is what happened to a small business in a small part of Ireland. I hope the Minister takes on the board what I have said. People in rural parts of Ireland should not be disproportionately affected by the Bill.

Buses will not solve the problem because about 1,000 of them would be needed. They cannot travel on boreens, back roads and by roads. The Minister may have a bigger problem in terms of rural isolation. I ask the Minister not to sound the final death knell for rural parts of Ireland and their pubs.

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