Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

As someone who worked in the Dublin Institute of Technology for almost 20 years, I wish to recognise and acknowledge all the work that has gone into the proposal to establish technological universities in Ireland by various people in different colleges around Ireland.

It is the Minister of State's job to be able to allay people's fears. One thing in the institutes of technology which has been partially resolved, particularly by the work of the Teachers Union of Ireland, TUI, in a constructive and lengthy contact and debate with the Department of Education and Skills. Some people may have concerns about section 50(1)(b) and section 50(2) because they want reassurance and clarity about status. This is because, in recent decades, there has been a shift in how staff are appointed to various positions within the third level sector. This is not only in institutes of technology but also the universities. Recently, there was a suggestion that in future, university presidents may have much higher salaries. At the same time as the Government indicated it is favourably disposed to the new Garda Commissioner receiving an annual salary package of around €250,000 annually, which is a lot of money to most people, there were indications that the heads of colleges and universities might similarly be in line for such salaries. The Minister of State should clarify this. I do not know what stage this proposal has reached.

Many young people are at various stages of undertaking PhDs while others have recently been awarded PhDs. Many find that they are being effectively being appointed at assistant lecturer level. The salary that goes with being at assistant lecturer level is modest. People would earn far more working in the information technology sector, in the commercial business sector, as accountants, lawyers or finance experts. Many people want to pursue an academic career. There is concern that in the transfer from one type of institution to another, there might be people whose terms and conditions are at risk. There has been a creeping development, I suspect influenced by the UK, where some of the leadership in third level institutions have people on contract terms that do not equate to tenure for long periods and perhaps even over a lifetime, whereas tenure used to be the common experience in Irish third level institutions. This could work out fine for people in some cases but it does not for others and it does not work fine for those who are among the 30-somethings who also need to buy a house and need status and confirmation of salary terms and conditions to be able to get a mortgage. There is a question of status within the institution for those without tenure. There has been a vast change internationally on the matter of status. It also applies to ancillary staff. I have often met people from the institutes of technology and the universities who might work in the library, for example, which is critically important especially in institutions where research is dominant. Their terms and conditions are being changed as institutions evolve. It is important to send a clear message. The technological university development will be really good for institutes of technology. It will allow them to grow and prosper and become more of a magnet for foreign direct investment into their local area. They are very attractive to people who have qualified in trades who can then progress to become engineers, professional accountants or other professionals and go up the ladder of achievement, but it needs to be directed.

Another thing which must be addressed are the complaints, which have come from as high a level as head of department, is that there has not been enough consultation with and information given to the senior staff in the institutions who are the leadership therein. These are the people on whom the Minister of State will rely to develop and lead this vision. I have seen people, whose achievements for their institutions and their students I really respect, query why they are not being included in a process. The process seems to being run out of the offices of the presidents.

Many years ago, I was on the original steering committee for the Grangegorman project. It was very difficult to explain the vision of the Dublin Institute of Technology being an institution with 20,000 students, for this city and country, that would open up career or academic progression, regardless of a person's background. It would offer the kind of progression that exists in countries such as Germany and Austria, where someone can begin as an electrician and go right up the ladder to become head of engineering in the institution, whether it is a university or an institute of technology. These heads of department, many of whom have made a similar progression and for whom I have the utmost respect, are saying that they are not sufficiently involved or consulted.

On the other end, I could take the Minister of State to my constituency, or indeed her own, and introduce her to people who, having committed to a PhD and an academic career, find it extremely difficult to get an established post. The Minister of State must speak on this to those two different sets of people who have only the best of ambition and intention to progress. The Minister of State said that this was all about students. People who have given their lives and are now heads of department, as well as those who are starting on a career to which they are totally committed, all need more information and contact from the Department and a greater indication of what is going to happen.

I fought in Cabinet for the new Luas to stop at Grangegorman, which it now does, and this will transform not just the DIT, but the whole area. Leadership is required from the Minister in the really important job she has to do. She has to reach out to the different sets of people who have genuine questions.

See this speech in context