Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I think I will be resigning because I do not know who will keep the peace in the group with all the land grabs that are taking place in Kerry, Cork and elsewhere. Níl a fhios agam cá bhfuil all but I am looking forward to tomorrow, amárach. I am happy to speak on this issue. Is pribhléid mór dom é, a huge privilege, to be elected to serve the people of all of Tipperary, aside for the bit that has been hived off into Limerick. I was also honoured and privileged to represent west Waterford.

I agree with having county boundaries as far as possible but one must also consider a town such as Clonmel. The river divides the town. A sizeable portion of the town that is across the river is in County Waterford. The people there were born in the hospital in Clonmel, they went to school in Clonmel and they work and socialise in Clonmel. They want to vote in Tipperary. I mean no disrespect to Deputy Butler who represents Waterford, but those people are Clonmel people. Such a town should not be divided. My colleagues were speaking about the country.

We kept Cromwell out of Clonmel centuries ago but we could not keep out big Phil, the destroyer and enforcer. He banished our town councils. He got rid of 11 borough councils and all the town councils throughout the country. Other Deputies have referred to how he trod on them. I met the Minister of State's supporters earlier and they were not very interested in his move to Europe either. The Minister of State must have hand-picked the crowd he brought here because they were all big supporters of the Minister of State. They have forgotten about the man who has left these shores, although as Kilkenny has no seashore he left the pastures of Kilkenny.

When we were engaged in talks on a programme for Government we spoke about holding plebiscites in the borough districts to ask the people if they wanted the town councils restored. We can discuss the money afterwards. There would be no cost to the State or the taxpayer. All of the county councillors I knew, be they from Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil, the Labour Party or independents, worked tirelessly for the people, not for reward. They were doing that before there ever was remuneration. The council itself was not a cost.

The huge cost was due to the county managers, all the staff and the directors of services. What they are getting would pay all the councils and the town council for one year. I am making this point very honestly. They gave dedicated service, looked after their people and supported the Garda and the Neighbourhood Watch. In respect of the 11 councillors in the town of Clonmel, they picked up the phone and rang them to get the lowdown on what was going on the area. It was necessary. They were on the ground and in touch and the Government must try to reinstate that. When the Bill was finally passed, I told the former Minister, Phil Hogan, when I was the last Member to speak that I would meet him in another forum. With my support, former councillor Niall Dennehy from Former Local Authority Members Éire, FLAME, has taken a case to the High Court. We are awaiting answers from the Department to progress that case. The Minister of State might look into why we cannot get relevant answers to our parliamentary questions in order that we can progress that case in the Four Courts.

I note Deputy Cassells has produced a Bill that will go before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government tomorrow in a meeting I hope to attend. In fairness, his Private Members' Bill will restore this but we should start by reinstating the borough councils and then look at town councils in a voluntary capacity if necessary because the volunteers are there. It is good political ground for spawning and training young politicians. If we were honest, many of us here would admit that we started there - tús maith, leath na hoibre - so what are we are ashamed of now? Is it a case of pulling up the ladder and to hell with the people behind them? No, we want our town council back in Clonmel. We used to have a budget of €15.1 million in that town. We now have nothing. We also had the town of Carrick-on-Suir, although we never had it in Cahir but we had a block grant. We had the towns of Cashel, Tipperary town and indeed right up into Thurles, Templemore, Nenagh and Roscrea. If we had to, we would go as far as Birr - if they were not able to look after it - because Deputy Cowen did not come in to do much for Tipperary when they were looking after it. We must leave county boundaries alone where possible except when the make-up of a sizeable town, its seed, breed and generation, means it is in a single enclave and so it must be left alone. We need to go back to the drawing board here. Deputy Michael Collins was pulled up by the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for criticising the mandarins who drew the lines. They must be held accountable. Retired politicians and retired senior civil servants should be on this commission, along with lay people so that it is not the preserve of the great institution down in the town where all the retired civil servants and county managers are. They have to be rooted out. We should turn off the heating there to see whether they will get out and let us, the elected people, govern. We should bring in lay people and retired politicians who have a wealth of knowledge - no more than the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. We need common sense to prevail. We do not need attacks and forays like those affecting south-west Cavan, Sligo-Leitrim and indeed south Donegal. The men who drew that up were crazy. They must be asleep or been out the night before.

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